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I totally disagree with this. The original Genesis character will be perfectly fine for crowd situations, background characters... for a long time into the future.
Just as well as front characters, support characters, monster characters, and everything else it was good before. G2F isn't Genesis and with gender specific figures will never have same sort of ability to blend and morph as Genesis currently has.
That is correct, no disagreement there. I think the loss of flexibility is an unfortunate but necessary tradeoff for more detail while remaining efficient.. detail that is mostly important for a 'main character' situation. That does mean a reduction of dial spun characters, which is also why Genesis (1) will remain a strong character for a long time to come. I just wish they wouldn't refer to Gen6 as Genesis.
As a side note, for those that are, or become comfortable with character creation using a modeling app and doing morphs, Genesis will serve well as a template for creating Gen6 and beyond bases to create characters from. That is, one can dial spin various characters to get a general feel for what they want, then bring the base Gen6 (or beyond) base into the modeling app and carve out their character. It can serve as a sketchpad of sorts to rough it out before doing the actual product.
There are some tradeoffs here, and for some the tradeoffs won't be optimal.
For me, the trade-off is too great to warrant an investment in V6. I wanted to love the new figure like I did with Genesis, but it just feels too restricting to go back to individual figures once again. I embraced the change that was Genesis because it was a giant leap forward, and I've invested a lot of money into products for it, but I'm far from willing to make the same gamble with V6. It's just feels like one step forwards and two steps back.
I have to admit, if I were a corporation looking to leverage moving forward with new products and keep people buying I would look to build in functionality to migrate the previous generation's content to the new platform, much as Microsoft has done. Going back more then a generation would cost too much often and only kill future sales, but one generation is needed to sustain the forward momentum. At that point, people would still gripe, but they would also still buy.
[Edit] There is a caveat here I forgot to mention. Since the content developers didn't make skins for the previous version but only continued to make the version before for the most part... this did not work here. For the concept to work, the corporation needs to get buy-in from the content developers into each generation so that there is 'some' base to migrate upwards.
I think the marketing could have been done better. Genesis was the one figure you'd need, now there are gender specific versions - and that's not a bad thing. Men and woman are not built the same, so the levels of detail and realism can be a good thing if that's your goal. Maybe call it Eve and the coming male version Adam.
That was my unstated thought ;
I think sticking to close to the bible would be detrimental frankly. I'm already tired of Genesis jokes as it is.
Even though I don't like how Daz went about things, I actually do appreciate V6/G2 a lot. I agree that for some the improvements may not be wanted or needed, but for me I was very happy to see how she looked as I was posing her.
Good work on the figure and rigging, bad job with the marketing, PR and naming. Feels more like an alternative direction for genesis and not a true successor.
What we need here is a list of features of G2 versus G1 and a testing of all the G1 stuff applied to G2. That way we can tell how much of a real value G2 is with our past investments.
While I like what I'm seeing with G2 model-wise, I'm just as frustrated as many of you with the sudden appearance of V6 so quickly after V5. We had such a long run with V4 that perhaps we got spoiled a bit, but it still seems so soon to me as well.
Still, there are advancements here we shouldn't just ignore out of hand. I believe our first task is to see how badly our investment in G1 has been devalued with G2. Perhaps it's not as bad as we think. I'm hoping that at least.
I see huge *potential* for the Genesis 2 (and I guess 3, later?). Focusing on a single gender has its pros and cons, but among the pros are that everything that's gender specific has the potential to be a lot better, and what I'm seeing so far with the morph pack supports that assertion.
Thing is, the poor girl is rather limited at the moment, particularly since G1 shoes aren't transferring properly unless they're super flat. The potential for greatness is there, but her immediate usefulness is pretty low.
Actually I made a short tutorial about how to add gender-neutral shape back to G2F
Can anybody here (when I see a lot of people who like to dabble in mechanics) test this method for me? Especially I'm curious about how it works in DS 4.6 as I don't have it installed.
Genesis 1 proved that you could have a unisex figure which had the best of both worlds. There is little I've seen from playing with V6 which assures me that the new figure couldn't be exactly the same.
There are already people creating male morphs for V6 using the existing sliders, so I think the argument that they were needed falls a little flat. Besides, wasn't the big sell of Genesis it's ability to mix and match morphs across the board? Removing the biggest benefit of its predecessor is like having your favourite toy confiscated and telling us it's for our own good.
I haven't tried V6, but I bought the morph bundle and V4 for G2. I'm surprised at how much 2000 extra polygons effect the appearance. The face, hands and feet are definitely more detailed. Joint bends on hip and elbow look much better too.
It would be nice to get the official DAZ statement on what their intentions are. At least we'd have an idea where this is all heading.
My feeling is this. Unless they are planning on releasing a G2U (Genesis 2 Unisex) mesh with new rigging and 2k+ extra polygons, then the universal mesh concept is going to be allowed to wither and die. No flowers, no grave just swept under the proverbial rug when the time comes.
Personally, I feel calling the new base figure Genesis 2 (or is that Genesis 2 Female?) clearly indicates where this is all heading. And after a short while, either DAZ and/or the Vendors, will effectively steer the marketplace away from G1 towards G2. After all who's going to spend time developing G1 equipment if DAZ say they are only looking for G2(F) from now on? This has never been an open market place and that's part of the price of using their free software and free upgrades.
I could be wrong. Heck, I'd like to be wrong. I accept change happens, it's poor change management that erks me. (For example you can't even filter the store by V6 or G2 to see what's available for heavens sake!)
If you leave an information vacuum then people naturally fill in the blanks themselves. We all know nature abhors a vacuum.
I'll watch what happens with interest.
Genesis 1 proved that you could have a unisex figure which had the best of both worlds. There is little I've seen from playing with V6 which assures me that the new figure couldn't be exactly the same.
There are already people creating male morphs for V6 using the existing sliders, so I think the argument that they were needed falls a little flat. Besides, wasn't the big sell of Genesis it's ability to mix and match morphs across the board? Removing the biggest benefit of its predecessor is like having your favourite toy confiscated and telling us it's for our own good.
Agreed. What we've seen from some PAs about how much easier it is making clothes for a female-only figure sounds more like justification for churning out as much ridiculously sexualized clothing as they like without getting embarrassed by customers putting it on guys or kids.
I'd be lying if I didn't think part of the reason for switching back to individual figures was to because Genesis potentially allowed over-sexualised children. That and pulling in double the sales with twice the number of morph packs being required and twice the wardrobe. Anyway, I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall at the moment as my meagre protests mean very little in the grand engine of progress. So I'll continue to support Genesis 1 until its dying day, and hope dearly that future products don't dry up too quickly for it.
There we go. That's where G1 started. Would it be so hard to get it right before releasing a new product? Yes, her immediate usefulness is pinned on about worthless at the moment. If I had faith that PAs won't bolt from G1 I'd shut up and wait, but I fear that what is about to transpire is a year or more of G2 playing catchup with G1 for what? More white and Asian women? No men, no teens, no kids. Few blacks, Latino, ethnic European, Arab, African, people over 30. So instead of filling those gaps, we're going to release the same old, same old, for the umteenth time because it uses the latest tech.
And many customers, the lemmings they are, will buy it. My fear is that this time, there may not be enough lemmings left to support the product. That would not be good for any of us.
Prove me wrong, Daz. I'd love to buy exciting human product. Right now I'm buying plants, animals, and scenery. At least there is some variety in those categories.
Glad to hear that. Buying the morph bundle is probably as far as I am going into G2 for a good while (unless the good sales come faster than I expect.)
I refuse to buy V4 for G2 at less than a 50% discount. It is a slap in the face to PC members that it is not a DO and texture wise it is a vital piece. It almost seems like Daz conspired to use V4 textures in G1 so they could gouge us in G2.
Victoria 6, I may wait until she's 70% off.
There we go. That's where G1 started. Would it be so hard to get it right before releasing a new product? Yes, her immediate usefulness is pinned on about worthless at the moment. If I had faith that PAs won't bolt from G1 I'd shut up and wait, but I fear that what is about to transpire is a year or more of G2 playing catchup with G1 for what? More white and Asian women? No men, no teens, no kids. Few blacks, Latino, ethnic European, Arab, African, people over 30. So instead of filling those gaps, we're going to release the same old, same old, for the umteenth time because it uses the latest tech.
And many customers, the lemmings they are, will buy it. My fear is that this time, there may not be enough lemmings left to support the product. That would not be good for any of us.
Prove me wrong, Daz. I'd love to buy exciting human product. Right now I'm buying plants, animals, and scenery. At least there is some variety in those categories.
http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases/wynn-for-m5
Did you get this? And I'm not speaking of wishlisting. I could have easily kept him for M6, but I figured Gen1 would like to have an ethnic male character since there are so few available.
Male-M3dia and his band of hooligans are great about supporting diversity in character and seem open to feedback and suggestions. If there's something specific you'd like to see, it could be worth letting them know. Or really, PA's in general. They can all be PM'd, and there are forums here. We can all express openly and/or privately what we'd like to see from our favorite vendors.
I just want to know one thing ....
How do I transfer my character's head (using a mix of v4 + v5) for genesis 2? (only the head.) Please, say that this is possible....
And I must say I don't like the Genesis 2 be a separate figure... I bought some extra and nice morphs that I love for Genesis 1 and now they are possibly lost now ...
Has anyone tried Gen4 for G2? I am curious if this improves the use and fit of v4 clothes. I often have trouble getting any of the good v4 stuff to work well on Genesis 1 so if this new product makes using v4 clothes fit better with Genesis2, then that might be worthwhile for me.
On the fence about V6. Having spent so much on Genesis products, I am feeling like we barely scratched the surface especially with how little support the SuperSuit got. It seems like V6 is a cash-in product at this point.
Purchased the most expensive bundle and unhappy overall.
It's most likely my fault for not understanding how all of this works, I just assumed I was getting a new Genesis Figure with a higher poly count that looked nicer that I could throw all my Genesis 1 morphs, clothes, hairstyles etc onto, but it doesn't work that way.
They just barely scratched the surface on Genesis 1 outfits as it is and now it's time to sell a whole new line because the G1 stuff doesn't work on 2?
This is my biggest issue as well. Hopefully they will provide a G1 to G2 auto fit, morph target conversion tool.
Genesis clothes are supposed to work on G2F with DS 4.6 via autofit (only, as DS 4.5 doesn't have capability of Triax to Triax autofitting), not sure about shoes and gloves.
Morphs can be transferred manually. So far I can't make V4 textures to work on G2F -_-
I don't know about could or couldn't, but what I do know is that looking at the universal morphs for Genesis 2 (i.e. heavy, pear-shaped, etc), they're all very female specific. The breasts seem more realistic, and the overall figure seems more genuinely, realistically, female. I can't tell you whether they could have pulled all of this off with G1; I don't have the technical knowledge to confirm or deny that. What I do know is that the results I'm seeing so far are impressive.
This is my biggest issue as well. Hopefully they will provide a G1 to G2 auto fit, morph target conversion tool.
You should already be able to fit clothing to G2 from G1, either by autofit or the transfer tool.
*Sigh* I'm so tired... I started this whole thing back during the age of V3. I was so excited to find such a cool way to create 3D art that was amazingly price friendly. When V4 and M4 arrived, they were big improvements so I made the switch and started my collection for them. Then came along Genesis, and not only was it an improvement, it was everything I could need in one figure! It was the ideal blend of all worlds, both male or female, young or old, human or fantasy creature... Clothes and morphs could be mixed and matched and fit themselves to most of the many morphs. Textures could be switched and were interchangeable, and with different UV sets, even older textures could be used. Add, into that, the new ability to geo-graft new parts to the figure, and it opened up the possibilities for endless creation, all from one figure. It was a great, even if still not perfect, concept, and I was one of the first to jump right on board!
Now we see Genesis 2? A female specific figure? A separation of some of the best features of Genesis? Why? Not only will we have to be buying clothes for two figures again, we will also have to buy geo-grafted items twice? We won't be able to use any character texture we want unless the UV was made for both figures? One of the big complaints of the old system was the male figures had so much less than the female ones and less popular figures had even less (Like kids and David and Stephanie). Though that still may be true, it is less of a problem than in the past thanks to Genesis. What about creating male and female versions of other creatures?
Now, maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit here. Maybe the Genesis 2 figures will all be made from the same mesh and work as one, unified figure, loading in all the morphs we buy no matter what "version" we load in. It could just be a marketing idea to separate them as individual figures, and maybe all the clothes, textures, UV sets and geo-grafted items will still be interchangeable. If so, however, why confuse people by making it look like they are taking a step backwards?
In my view, any new Genesis figure (beyond just a new morph) should work like Genesis does now but take it to the next level of functionality and realism while maintaining as much backwards compatibility with the older version as possible. It shouldn't force us to go back to an older, broken system, forcing us to buy the same older products over and over again. How many times do they think I want or need to buy the V3, A3, S3, V4, A4, S4, Girl, *takes a deep breath* M3, H3, D3, M4, H4, D4, and older Freak shapes? They should be upgraded/injected into the newer Genesis since my money has been spent on them a few times already. If I need or want the new versions of all the figures, then I'll spend new money on them. Come on DAZ. Help us out here. We do want to spend our money on new things you make, not on rehashed old stuff again.
If V6 was an upgrade while in a new Genesis body like I described, I would consider buying her. I'm going to have to wait and see how this all pans out in the coming days and weeks before investing anything in Genesis 2. Until I know more about how it's all going to work, I'm sticking with what I have.
Can I transfer my character’s head ( that use a v4 + v5 + extra morphs) using your tutorial ? http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24093/
Or this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/6341/P15 ?
I did one comparison in another thread: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24070/#356286
And D3D has a thread worth noting about eventual GenX G1 -> G2: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/24079/
I feel like G2 is desperately in need of a FAQ. All the information is being strained across multiple threads.
Sorry if I've missed this on a different thread but does Genesis2 any way overwrite or interfere with Genesis 1? If it does I don't want it on my system. Genesis 1 is great - got all the old character morphs. Don't need anything else.
BTW - got all the way back to Vicky 1 and still use the old girl sometimes. Old doesn't mean obsolete.