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Now, that statement made this character a little more interesting.
Also this means that regular textures created for the Genesis 2 Basic Female probably look better with this UV map?
Anyone tried / want to test this?
Now, that statement made this character a little more interesting.
Also this means that regular textures created for the Genesis 2 Basic Female probably look better with this UV map?
Anyone tried / want to test this?
No, textures are made for a specific UVset. Switching to one it wasn't intended for generally leaves gaps.
I think her shoulders and arms are just a tad undersized for the "warrior" she is billed as. If you look at female MMA fighters or boxers, as a reference point. Not a lot mind you, but just a bit under. Or is it just me?
I think that everything about her is a bit light. But I think some may be put off if she was any stronger.
If nothing else she could have had a bit more glute/thigh/calf going on. She needs to be strong enough to stand up in a powerful wind, especially if she ever puts on some armor.
Thanks for the CG Basic Suit corrected map. I could not leave comment on your dev page -something is wrong with the comment system.
I added the pennies up and got her this morning. Doing the combination of the pro bundle with the belly set is a good deal, it can basically make the belly morphs free. Also having the SY breast fixer as a daily deal is nice in that combo too - was not super happy having to buy that, since I have two other products already for this, HOWEVER, if I'm having to buy it, this at least made the price almost negligible (whereas the original genesis breast clothing fixer was never that cheap).
You can't compare prices like that though, thats a flawed mentality. Spending is not saving. Not spending is saving.
I purchased the breast fixers for Genesis1 at a reasonable discounted price, around the same price as the current one is going for. I'm not going to buy a ton of unrelated stuff to say I got something free/cheap. For those of us not buying belly morphs or pro bundles the price of the fixer isn't dramatically reduced or near free.
But it is nice that this SY solution is using dials, the other solutions I got from SY didn't work for me because of the system they used. But since my original (non-SY) breast fixes work just about as well as they did on G1, I get to save for realz. one of the reason they work is probably because I'm mostly using my G1 characters on G2F and I know what dials are about right for them. yay for having at least some memory left.
I agree with what you are saying. Though I'm not getting the pro bundle to get those things. In my case, since I'm buying the Pro bundle anyway, adding the belly morphs makes both of them together about a dollar less (edit: for PC members) than the pro bundle by itself, a no-brainer, and separately, having the SY breast product today, as opposed to another day, as the "christmas" item was a kindness in my book since it's the first day of the promotion I've gotten one of the qualifying releases (i.e. Gia) and had a desire to get the promotion item. I totally agree I'm not saving, I'm just happy in this case that the deals work out such that the money I'm spending is going further for things I want with a certain amount of ease. I wouldn't say I want everything in the pro bundle, hardly, but just enough things, and having these two items in the pot at very little additional cost helps out.
@storypilot, sorry bout that. I simply should have said "if you buy it alone they are about the same" .
No problem, larsmidnatt, and yes you are absolutely right. And actually the main purpose of my original post was to hint that any pc members getting the pro bundle should totally add the belly morphs because it cancels out. The cleavage product was a bit more, well as long as I'm going for this much, this is likely to be about as good a time as any to grab this too - this particular promo series hasn't done much for me so far, but today is the day. :)
No, textures are made for a specific UVset. Switching to one it wasn't intended for generally leaves gaps.
Yea, but it depends on how much has changed and in this case "It's minimal to the average eye (very little change) but from a technical viewpoint, you can see why it was done" which led me to believe it was more a matter of making changes to enable better definition of the muscles, if the outlines hasn't changed from the original (Genesis 2 Basic Female uv map?) the textures would work with this uv map as well.
I don't have my Daz PC around at the moment so I can't check it for myself, will someone who bought Gia load the Genesis 2 Female Basic Templates (or V6 if that was the one they used as the base for the changes), then select the Gia UV map and render an image that shows the uv map border alignment to settle this issue. Another way to test this is to just overlay the template images o on top of each other and have a look if the seams line up.
(Yes fixmypcmike, I do know a thing or two about uv, maps... ;)
@bringho - I have a render running so I haven't tried switching the UVs to see how close they are, however, looking at the Belle torso map from V6 and the Gia default Tiziana overlayed, the seams *look* quite similar. The positioning of a number of features (most notably in the chest area, collarbone, breasts) is shifted within that space, so there are differences, how much I'm not sure yet.
Ok - actually finished while typing - here's what I see switching UV's
Oddly, starting on Gia and switching her UVs to V6, makes almost no immediately visible seams EXCEPT one gigantic one on her right arm. So, at least in that spot, the difference is significant.
On the face, there is some more subtle shifting of features, the face pic with the arm seam visible is V6 UVs, the other is Gia UVs.
Editing to add, there is also a seam on the back of the right leg in V6 UVs. Basic Female UVs on the face seems to be a closer match to Gia, but the arm and leg seams are still in those same places. So from what I can tell the limbs template is the most different.
Thanks Storypilot,
Regarding the torso, I would check the outline, the nipple positions and the navel to get a first idea about possible compatibility issues.
Thanks M8!
The arm thing is really interesting. It indicates that the uv maps for the left and right arms are more or less asymmetrical on at least one of the uv maps which is a shame as the left and right mesh is symmetrical (or should I say that I know that the mesh of the fingertips is symmetrical on the original Genesis figure)... I'll dig into this when I get home Sunday night ;)
Also, this proves that the uv maps are more different than I thought, ie totally incompatible.
No problem. Regarding the arms, actually now that I've glanced at the limbs textures it looks like the right arm position in the layout has been moved and slightly rotated in Gia UV vs the other two Genesis 2 layouts. The shape looks very similar, it's just in a different position. Very odd, I wonder at the reason for that choice.
I think that everything about her is a bit light. But I think some may be put off if she was any stronger.
If nothing else she could have had a bit more glute/thigh/calf going on. She needs to be strong enough to stand up in a powerful wind, especially if she ever puts on some armor.
I generally agree, "proper" melee warriors would have massive shoulders from constant weapon usage - but if she looks too butch, folk won't buy her and there would be a tidal wave of complaints that she looked like a guy in drag. I was amazed at the number of people that couldn't see beyond the androgynous base shape of Genesis 1 and I see this as something similar... but easy enough to bulk her up if needed.
No, it's not just you.
Looking at the promos, they've made the same basic mistake that they have with every DAZ muscular/bodybuilder morph for a female mesh right back to V1/V2: the arms, while defined, are much too thin and undeveloped in proportion to the legs. Serious lack of research.
Yes, it's true that for completely unathletic women the arms are very thin compared to their legs - reflected in the fact that an average (untrained) woman has about two-thirds the leg strength of a man but only a little under half the arm and upper body strength (that is as compared with a man of the same height and weight - i.e. 5 foot 4 inches - not as compared with an average man who is considerably bigger)
However, what that means is simply that a trained woman who has been training for strength (amongst other things) for some sport like MMA, karate, king fu, fencing, boxing, tennis, sprinting, rugby or whatever will put more effort initially into training upperbody and arm strength to get that arm and upperbody strength into a more reasonable balance with their leg strength. And that will substantially increase the arm and shoulder size.
About the only women athletes you'd see with such skinny arms as with Gia and all the other female muscular/bodybuilder morphs are long distance runners. And certainly for a supposed warrior, they will need some serious arm and upperbody development to wield the swords, do any damage with them when they hit, cart guns around for extended periods, and conceivably be up to any empty hand kerfuffles. (And any woman turning up with those arm-to-leg proportions for any fitness of bodybuilding competition would be laughed off the stage.)
I think the DAZ morph makers must just reference some 'action woman' films, where one does see proportions like that amongst actresses who have just dieted and lost water to get a bit of definition, but who have not actually really trained to do, and absolutely couldn't in real life do what their character is portrayed as doing in the movie. Looking at photos of actresses with their stunt doubles (who actually do do the stuff portrayed) is quite instructive: in Buffy The Vampire Slayer, for instance, I could always tell when it was Sophia Crawford on screen instead of SM Gellar, even when the face couldn't be seen, simply because the circumference of the upper arm round the bicep increased about 5 inches or so when it was Sophia.
When they are going to produce a female 'warrior' morph, somebody at DAZ should actually look at a few photos of female MMA fighters, boxers, rugby players, wrestlers, heptathletes, stunt women, climbers and the like. I really wish they'd produce the base morphs with arms and legs in a proper proportion for a trained, fit woman, which one could then adjust around making arms or legs thicker or thinner. It's much more flexible to start from the middle (properly balanced arms and legs) than from an extreme where one has to push to the limit just to get to the middle.
A day is like a 1000 years.....oh wait that's God......Nevermind : )
I thought it released in the middle of the night like most things so from when the post was created it was like 4 or 5 hours I thought :O) So not toooo bad. And not our fault...first she had to find Buddles and then try to get all the pennies back from Sassy. These things take time ;O)
It was released at 12 AM, I saw it just before I went to bed. If this shape is going to be the base for She Freak I MIGHT consider getting her. MIGHT!
Who designed her shape??
Thanks
Richard
They don't have to be 'massive' - they simply need to be in a proper proportion.
Bulk does not equate to strength, per se. Warriors look very little like bodybuilders, and if you train simply for brute strength you don't actually end up looking much like a bodybuilder at all. And if you train to be a warrior with a sword - or MMA, Karate, Boxing, Wrestling, Kung Fu, Fencing etc - you need to train a mix of fast twitch fibre strength and slow twitch fibre strength, AND agiity, speed, accuracy and endurance. That actually needs compromise because training just for one of those will be training away from others, so a warrior - male or female - doesn't just train all out for strength.
But what the woman will get is a better proportion between upper body and arm strength and their leg strength, which will in turn produce proportionally thicker arms and somewhat thicker shoulders for leg size. Not massive - if you look at the physique of adventure racing women, fighters and boxers, and the few women military personnel who have managed things like the UK All Arms Commando course, they are by no means massive - just better proportioned between arms and legs.
(BTW, they had all sorts of problems with the action scenes with Arnold Schwarzernegger in the first Conan film, specifically because he was TOO bulked up and simply couldn't do a number of basic sword moves because his huge pecs, biceps and triceps wouldn't let his upper arms come in close enough to his body for the moves. Sandahl Bergman - who was an intensively trained dancer beforehand - was actually naturally better at the sword stuff than Arnie, though she'd have needed to do a bit of upperbody work herself to do enough damage in real life, especially against armour.)
I think whether the arms are or aren't big enough honestly is a matter of taste (if you look up Warrior Women on Google you will see an over abundance of this general look or softer rather then the more bulky/ muscular look) and also a matter of subject and render theme etc. Obviously rendering a more current time ninja you may need the arms larger to account for newer techniques etc as far as exercise and training goes. That said, if you are doing a fantasy render more in make believe times or more past tense, this may in fact be more accurate or appealing. I have seen artwork with women that have smaller arms and larger and both looks fine to me. In the case of Gia, mixing other morphs is should be more then possible to get a larger arm or thicker as the case may be mixing in a couple morphs with her.
Maybe someone could play and post some images along with what settings they used etc?
Personally, I don't personally like the over muscular look. I like my warriors to have a bit more of a softer look. It could be they tried to go for a happy medium between the extremes which I personally think they did a decent job of :O) That said, as with anything, some will like it and some will wish they were smaller and some will wish they were bigger. Hopefully with other morphs you should be able to go either way with good results :O).
It's not a matter of preference for me, it's just far from realistic is all. A warrior woman wouldn't be so small up top is the point.
But for art, you don't necessarily have to be realistic if the audience doesn't mind. Usually they don't. Hence the awesome skimpwear armor I enjoy so much.
As I said she was made how she was for sales, not because she is truly designed to mimic warrior women at all. So some of us are picking on the warrior advertising, not really stating if we find her appealing or not.
Also a tip, I wouldn't exclusively look at contemporary art for depictions of anything, you'll primarily get mainstream washed out results :)
For example that google search showed the girl from sucker punch. Why in the world would I use that as a reference...
Well, I did pick up the base figure (also went back and picked up the V6 base as well). I see that the Genesis 2 Female Starter Essentials showed up in my downloads with them.
I'd already downloaded that package, so is this simply because I just purchased an actual base figure, or have the starter essentials been updated for the Gia base?
Actually it showed a varied amount of general results that are considered mainstream warrior women by the fact those that posted this felt they were and named or tagged them as such. I also looked through Royo and Frazetta's stuff as well as some others. I just didn't link everything I looked at as I didn't feel it was necessary to make the general point I was trying to make.
In general most people now creating renders or artwork of warriors are not using the more muscular look with the big shoulders etc. Frazetta did about 50% of the time and then not the other half. Even looking on Deviant Art and other art sites and even looking up paintings etc from other eras (like depictions of Joan of Arc etc) I am seeing a far larger proportion doing the smaller arms and/or adding in tone rather then the other. I would assume when working on something like this you would go with what it seems the majority uses and then add in the ability to take it to a larger extreme etc. by mixing in other morphs.
If you tried selling a "proper" warrior, either male or female, most folk would consider them "fat & ugly"... the artistic conventions were laid down long before 3D art was invented, and they have nothing to do with reality. Vallejo & Bell have more influence than any anthropologist.
Custom morphs - the answer to everybody's problems.
But having said all that, chances are we all have a totally different idea of what a warrior is... A Bruce Lee equivalent? MMA ground-and-pounders? Medieval melee specialists? Legendary Amazon warriors that cut off a breast to shoot better? They're all perfect examples of warriors in their own right, but look nothing like each other.
Archaeological discoveries of ancient battlefield burials show that most melee warriors had massively overdeveloped regions based upon their weapon of choice to the extent that anthropologists can often determine which weapon they fought with. The all-rounder would not have such a "deformed" physique.
Oh yeah, did I mention that custom morphs are the answer to everybody's problems? ;)
100% agreed. I've got my own curvy bottom morphs for my warrior ladies. Makes em, better with, em er, weapons and stuff.
Not necessarily, but I guess it depends on each person's view of what a warrior woman is. Look at Jillian Michaels. She's really tiny (5'3), and she doesn't have massive breasts, either.
Now if we're talking Futurama 'death by snu-snu' amazon style chicks, that's a whole 'nother story. lol
Not necessarily, but I guess it depends on each person's view of what a warrior woman is. Look at Jillian Michaels. She's really tiny (5'3), and she doesn't have massive breasts, either.
Now if we're talking Futurama 'death by snu-snu' amazon style chicks, that's a whole 'nother story. lol
She's a personal trainer though, I wouldn't really look at her as a reference personally. (for a real world fighter)
I guess just like I wouldn't look at a cross country runner or a yoga teacher. (again for a real world fighter)
EDIT: And not sure what breasts have to do with it. When I said small up top I was referring to the arms and such, sorry for confusion. I don't anticipate them to have a lot breasts going on LOL
Well you also have to consider (you general not to anyone specifically) that when doing any "base" whether it be Gia or even the V4 Warrior morphs from back when etc, you do need to keep them somewhat toned back and more general to give others who create characters or morphs both room and poly to be able to work with etc. People like Zev0 and some of the character creators like Rawn and some others will push Gia further with what they create. If you get too specific at the start it makes working with it later a lot more difficult to get any sort of variation. That said, I'm not saying it wasn't worth the discussion. Some PA may see this and do something to suit etc so it is always worth discussing. I was more explaining why I am guessing the choices that were made, most likely were :O)