Is Bryce dead or alive ?
tchadelaud
Posts: 2
Hello to Daz,
For many years we ask the question : what is the future for Bryce. Is Bryce dead or alive ? What's about Bryce 8 ?
No response is never made !
There was no update or upgrade for a long time.
It's the same for Hexagone 2.5 !
I hope an answer. Thank you in advance. ;-)
Regards
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Comments
Its not on the main menu Technology header anymore... either is Carrara.
Bryce is not dead, as you can see there are many of us, actively posting renders and talking to each other and helping new members, and PAs adding new Bryce items to the store, this forum is still active, we are still active and as long as you have active Brycers then you still have Bryce.
You should browse through the big long Bryce render thread in this forum, it is on it's 9th Iteration, which means the thread as already over 800 pages of posts, as we split threads after page 100. You will find that people are still finding new things to do with Bryce.
So if you have people finding new things to do with it, if you have PAs relelasing new content for it, how can it be dead.
We even have a regular Bryce render challenge, sponsored by DAZ 3D, so we have prizes for it as well.
Bryce is an outstanding system, so is Carrara. And I want there to be Life in all these systems. Heck I still bum out thinking what MS did with TrueSpace... talk about wasted potential. However wrt Bryce, is there any development planned to the systems so it stays current with common technologies and open standards so it has a future in our project pipelines?
If not, its a lot to ask of NEW consumers to invest in content and project time for dead-end tool-sets.
Yes.
I agree with all of you, there is a very active community of users and for a long time !
But in this case the problem are not users, but the software.
There are no more evolutions for a long time. Where is the compatibility with OSX Maverick or Windows 8.1 64 bits ?
Bryce and Carrara are not the same softwares. I think Bryce users would be happy to see their program to be modernized, and I should be !
For me, it's very much alive, and will be until they pry it from my cold dead hands.
My signature says it all. I want and need a 64 bit version of Bryce with new features specifically geared toward scenery, landscape, and faster workflow. I'm willing to pay.
I commend the user community and especially Brinnen and Horo for their love and support of the product, but without vendor support for modern programming techniques and modern User Interface methodologies (and therefore without support for larger meshes, more complex scenes, and faster workflows), I can not and will not join in. My current work in Bryce is now only that of a quick-task nature.
Blender already does it all, including landscapes and modelling too. DAZ needs to step up their game with Bryce, Hexagon, and Carrara, because the longer they wait, the greater the number of people who will "just try out" these other solutions. The greater number of people trying, the greater the number of people who will no longer need DAZ, the content store, and the lucrative lock-in with PC+ subscriptions.
By my algebra, NOT making a new Bryce, Hex, and Carrara could spell a premature end for DAZ. Like General Motors, who ignored the marketplace for decades with their oversized, gas guzzling, and often poorly made products, had to get a bailout. The only difference here is that there will be no bailouts for small technology companies in Utah.
Call me crazy, but I think these issues are major with regards to the long term future of DAZ 3D, and DAZ needs to stop relying 100% on the inertia of the content store and its hard-working PAs. I am ALWAYS the guy who will say "I told you so." Yes, it's an annoying habit of mine, but even so, I'll be sure to remind you all at the appropriate time that we should have been much more vocal.
Have you tried Vue?
If you haven't seen it yet, the latest issue of DS Creative magazine has an interview with Steve Spencer, VP of Marketing at DAZ 3D. The interview focuses mainly on DAZ Studio, but there are a couple of questions about the future plans for other DAZ 3D software titles. The responses might be of interest, though they don't give a clear answer to the question of whether a new version of Bryce is planned.
Here's the link: http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_09
You can find the interview on p.20-21. See especially questions 5 and 13.
Interesting.
@Scott-Livingston - thank you for bringing this to our attention.
5: There is no question that DAZ Studio is our main focus. We still have plans for some of our other titles as well but you will see Studio continue to advance and incorporate more functionality as time goes on.
13: (Will there be a Hexagon update in the future?) Likely not ...
15: (Landscape/rock/tree generator inside of DAZ?) It's on the roadmap ...
So it's open to any interpretation and rumor.
I saw a similar post on this topic yesterday, there is a lot of speculation whether Bryce is "abandonware" as Daz continues to walk away from 3D modeling and 3D landscape into the netherworld of gaming using DAZ|Studio.DAZ has forsaken 'reality 3d' to gamers' unreality 3D.I mean, look through the catolog... funky characters, fantasy characters, sci-fi characters, I have a lot of trouble finding ordinary items such as street clothes and everyday hairstyles without elven tiaras or metallic spikes I guess reality sucks... Bryce as an artists tool for photorealistic landscape and nature is falling out of fashion.
Daz, make one more revision to Bryce if you are thinking about walking away from it for good. Get into the 21st century and make Bryce a 64-bit application. Bryce has all the creation tools to replicate reality in lighting, modeling, importing models, it's own tree and sky lab, and IBL and HDRI... Bryce is as close as perfect as a quick easy to use 3D software loaded with features that exists today. .I saw a thread about four years ago named, "What features would you like to see in Bryce 8?" My list included a 64-bit version as it would be able to free up space and accept larger file sizes.
If memory and file size are issues, one program I love second to Bryce itself is a n executable script called 'Large Address Aware' or LAA. What it does is in systems above the x386 that use up to 4 GB of RAM, it addresses and uses the higher levels of memory used by x64 systems. As I mentioned yesterday, I have 16 GB of memory, and without LAA I would have 4GB of total operating memory usable by Bryce, regardless of how much more memory I have.
LAA pushes the program operations up into the x64 tier and leaves the lower tier that the program used to run in x386 free for scenes. In effect, LAA turns Bryce into a x64 program, though it is a x386 application. Google Large address aware to find the app, it works like a script in that you enter the executable file [bryce.exe) and uncheck the box option that limits the memory used 2GB above the x64 tier.
I use DS as a plug-in for Bryce, to import Genesis/Millenium figures into a scene. I do realistic scenery, my thing now is tropical resorts and beach scenes and without LAA I could only import 2 Millenium/Genesis figures per scene before the memory error popped up. Now, I cam easily import up to eight figures (see scene below) which is more normal for a scene of a motel pool scene. The scene below has seven figures- Victorias and Stephanies (both 3 and 4) and Jessi is tossed in there somewhere too. And that is in addition to the motel and trees in the background, and additional loungers and patio table/chair sets you don't see in the picture that surround the pool.
Nice, huh? :coolsmirk:
Horo, if you can incorporate Bryce's features into DS I would be a seriously happy camper :)
Horo, if you can incorporate Bryce's features into DS I would be a seriously happy camper :)
LOL Horo was quoting Steve Spencer, from the Mag article Scott linked to.
And there would be a whole slew of very unhappy campers.if DAZ 3D went down that route. Bryce is Bryce and DS is DS and the only place the twain should meet is on the bridge.
BTW, this is Pam the Brycer speaking here, not Chohole the Moderator.
Many of us use Poser as our plug-in to get Figures etc into Bryce. :roll:
Well, that's not entirely correct. 32-bit can address 4 GB, however, 32-bit programs mostly use only 2 GB. The other half was intended for op-sys use. In every 32-bit application there is a flag reserved to override the op-sys use and give the application the full addressable space of 4 GB. The address space of a 64-bit machine exceeds 4 GB hugely.
This flag can be set at compile time by the programmer already. It can also be set afterwards manually. Because it's a bit tricky to locate that 2-byte space for the flag, there are programs that can do that. These are not scripts but compiled/assembled programs. If you're interested, you can watch the video Bryce Memory Shortage - and what you can do about it. Bryce, being a 32-bit application, can handle around 3.5 GB when the LAA flag is set. That's my experience. Though there are folks telling us Bryce must not be LA aware because it was not made for it and is prone to crash, in my experience it only crashed when I haven't set the flag because 2 GB are soon exhausted. The savest way is to bring Bryce to 64-bit.
And yes, Pam is right.
I will read the article.
But first, I want to add-on to Horo's post and say very precisely and VERY clearly that LAA is NOT good enough. Anything that is not 64 bit is not good enough.
It is 2015, over 50 years after the first 64 bit systems!
I think DAZ should consider releasing the source code to the public domain for Hexagon and any other about-to-be-doomed software. Bryce could have a second life and COULD be 64 bit and COULD be bug-reduced, if not by DAZ, then by others.
Okay, I read the article. Hex is dead, that's for sure. And I interpret it that Bryce is dead, too; after all why keep it around if you're going to put landscape features into DAZ Studio? Where does this leave Carrara? As far as I'm concerned, it will go to the same purgatory place with Hexagon and Bryce. Carrara, with its sad sad 1970's UI and ultimately no future home.
But at least now we know. Although it's a sad thing, at least we know. For that I'm thankful, because now I can make future plans without DAZ for those key creative functions of modelling and landscaping.
For me, it's back to my Blender tutorials and it may be time to revisit Vue (yes, I have used it a bit). I will continue to use DAZ for scenes and content management, at least until I outgrow the content store. Knowing the lifecycle end (and therefore being aware of the eventual terminus of my PC+ membership and financial commitment too) will be infinitely helpful.
It's better to know, much better.
There was nothing definite said in that article about Bryce being a dead program. DAZ 3D is fully aware that they have many Bryce users still.
Hello! Yes, I know what was said in the article. But I've been alive long enough to be able to read between the lines, and I've been in business long enough to recognize it clearly whenever it is a manager type who said it or wrote it.
Now I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, or that he said anything bad or that he has any bad intentions. After all, it's just business. But to me the intention is as clear as if it was actually written. As far as DAZ is concerned, Bryce is done. If anything else were true, then he would be talking about new features for Bryce. I mean he would be talking about specific new features for Bryce! In the absence of that kind of promotion, I am left to believe that there are no future plans for this product.
Of course I still feel the DAZ should release the Bryce source code and make it open. Seriously, there's no good reason to sit on it for this long. There's no good reason to hold a great software product back from timely updates. There's no good reason to keep a valuable product such as this (and Hex and Carrara) sequestered away in a dark room far far away from even the most basic bare-bones modernization efforts. Unless you're going to get rid of it that is.
If I was the executive in charge of deciding the fate of a software product that hasn't been updated in a decade, or (more likely) telling the public about the already-decided fate of said product, I would've tried to be a little more direct about it. Basically, they've done nothing but leave hope at this point for those of us who have a lot invested in the software already. Years of investment in some cases. But at this point, it is what it is. Maybe it's not so much that they don't want to anger the customer, but maybe they don't want to cause a panic among the PAs, many of whom still use Hexagon and even Bryce for their livelihood. Especially since it is the PAs that are the main engine of growth for this company, at least until the 3D printing takes off.
Of course this is all just my conjecture. But I think I have gathered enough information at this point to be able to properly plan for my own artistic future. I'm very realistic about this, and I'm thankful that I now have a more clear view of what is to come…or what is to not come, as the case may be. And that was really what I was trying to say in my prior post.
That would be 2025 or later the CRAY-1 was operational and had 64 bit registers, however it was not until '83 that they were in use as multi-processing super systems. Windows XP 64BIT edition rolled out April 25 2005. So in general, 64 bit computing as been available to US consumers for approx. 10 years,
I would even venture to say that DAZ is aware they have ALL the active Bryce users in their market scope. Question is where will they migrate as the software ages past its host system?
With respect to Carrara - it may surprise us. After years of development neglect I thought it was EOL several years ago - and then 8.5 came out.... version 9 was to arrive 6 months later. That was 18 months ago... so who knows?
You are entitled to form your own opinion from what was or wasn't said I guess. That is what most speculation is founded on, after all.
Others, on the other hand, are entitled to carry on in our own happy way, using the program we love and are still finding fun to use; with new things discovered to do with what we do have all the time.
I dont think the OP meant any insult to Bryce users. I think he was just trying to see if there was a future. Not that its not usable, or that those who use it are "dead'. I think he meant dead as in end-of life product cycle, not in that the user base has vanished. The user base may exist, but its not likely to grow w/o continued development for because the user investment is substantial, even if the app is free.
Discussions like this are beneficial to the Bryce base as it brings awareness to the marketing department that there is still substantial interest and that continued development is worthy.
Dream Cutter is exactly right in his interpretation of what I wrote. Thanks!
I hope that nothing I have ever written would require that I should have to say this, but I will anyway…I meant no offense to any existing Bryce users, and of course no offense to Bryce the product. Truth be told, I would prefer that we all get a new version of Bryce, exactly as I've been saying in my signature for about the last year. But I'm also a realist, and always I would rather get the truth, and I would rather get it directly, and I would rather get it reasonably quickly.
I really don't like it when companies keep lifecycle plans as closely held secrets to be protected at all cost from the user base. And I've also observed that when companies keep such secrets while shutting down bug fix and new development, it often means that the thing that we love is going to go away.
Again, I would just rather know the truth. Be honest with me! I might get angry, but I promise I can handle it. :smirk:
But don't you think "discussions" of this sort actually do user groups a lot of harm as well, because New users or potential new users will see the pessimism and decide that maybe it is not worth investing time and money into learning this fantastic program.
Bryce lives, Bryce is great and Bryce is fun, that's the message we need to get over.
The current Bryce version is now 3-1/2 years old (August 2011) and there are many users that still use it as they used Bryce 5. Many haven't realised yet what we got with the last development cycle that lasted for over 2 years. Apart from being a 32-bit application, Bryce is still top-notch and not behind the competition.
Bryce makes it very easy to get started in 3D art and is incredibly versatile, something we miss in other applications. They may have an edge over Bryce here and there, but they can't match the versatility. In Bryce, not even the sky is the limit - only memory is.
Bryce constantly amazes me with its capabilities and the beauty of the scenes/ lighting one can create - and many users have done such amazing works with it. I for one am really, really hoping it has a future. Its a bit like the Tardis - not much to look at on first glace, but vast possibilities under the hood once you dive in. Long live Bryce.
It is? Someone had better update Wikipedia then :)
I think the discussion would be more productive if there were definitions of "dead" and "alive" in this context that were meaningful.
No - I think users begging for the software to be update demonstrates the vigorous demand for the products continued existence. I think that can only encourage adoption and reinvestment. New user disappointment is more likely to happen through lack of discussion and knowledge on the topic. Who likes to get burned by disappointment?
Lately I think what attracts newbies to the thread on Bryce in the first place is all the wonderful projects people post that is created with Bryce, especially since DAZ appears to be reducing its Bryce (merchandising) profile in the store and advertising.
Seriously ~ On this topic or other whats being quiet and mum about it's extinction that has benefited the community itself? A pig squeals when its about to be caught, alerting the rest to protect their bacon. Users of of other applications that get wind of End of Life plans have made their voices heard and the publishers made alternative plans - such as providing source to the community to maintain or in some cases the original indy developer bought his code back. Several projects come to mind and I even assisted on saving one social app that had up 7 million users...and over 800 active users at its EOL announcement. There was such an uproar that the original coder bought it and is doing quite well updating it. Also Windows XP is STILL being updated after the EOL a year ago, by MS devs and the community.
It is? Someone had better update Wikipedia then :)
I think the discussion would be more productive if there were definitions of "dead" and "alive" in this context that were meaningful.
If it can't run on your current OS, no matter how much you would like to support it, then it is pretty much dead for you. I can run Bryce on my PC under Windows 7, so in that sense it is alive for me. If it won't run under the next version of Windows (excluding the Windows 8 which even Microsoft seem keen to distance themselves from) then that will be pretty much deaded. I'd like to switch to Mac if I could, but Mac is a) a bit too expensive for my modest means and b) there would be the thorny issue of getting Bryce to run on it. However if Microsoft continue along their present trajectory, then it is going to strengthen the case for shifting over to Mac.