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I volunteered on a Beta product that was for poser, to show the PA (somewhere else) that their product could work fine in Carrara. What the drawbacks that could be explained (such as the shaders would need to be tweaked etc) unfortunately my health got to me and I didn't do nearly as much as I should have. I did show that all the morphs worked with the various figures it was designed to work with, the shaders loaded and rendered. Then I put in a few Carrara shaders and did a HDRI rendering. It may not make it into the documentation but perhaps it gets some thinking done and that its a Carrara compatible product and with some shaders it becomes a Carrara product as well.
The funny thing is I have offered to test some vendors work in Carrara so they can add it to their compatibility lists when they try to sell in various marketplaces. I have offered my services over a dozen times and I have gotten ZERO responses back. Not even a "go to hell", just silence.
I often wonder how serious one is if he can't even be bothered to respond to a request to RECEIVE help.
Indeed. And I'm guessing you have purchased products from those vendors. Apparently Carrara users, even long time paying customers, are no longer in the target market of many DAZ PA's.
We missed our chance at educating them with the "five best non carrara products in your library' thread.
Tto convert poser materials it's usually just a case of two clicks with Fenric's shader tweaker.
edit for being ot
Yes, most of them I had bought MANY items from. A few were new, but I would think that to give ONE away to possible sell even a half dozen more units (at least) would be worth it.
You know, at the "Other" marketplace, it can be risky to buy something unless you are absolutely sure it will work
I offered, they ignored.
Oh well.
There are also products offered that are new materials/shaders for existing products. Curious, has anyone offered to create shader/material and other optimizations to use more sets/props in Carrara? Ringo does this for shaders for base figures. Is there a market for more mundane products? I kind of doubt it because people can just do the adjustments themselves, but maybe. Certainly worth exploring.
I once offered to test in Carrara for a beta of something a while ago. It was in a thread asking for beta testers, so maybe it was harder to ignore.
The reason given for declining made sense to me - they offer support for everything they sell and they know nothing of Carrara and therefore could not begin to offer support for any Carrara customers with even very basic questions or problems.
I actually respect that position.
A lot more than just ignoring the request!
I agree. I see the same thing from a different perspective with many Poser format products at Renderosity, "We Cannot Support DAZ Studio." They don't mention Carrara, but my experience with Poser format in Carrara has been very good. In any case, the 3D format "Tower of Babel" seems to be growing ...
Right Sock
I agree with you, but they could have taken the time (20 seconds to say so) rather than just ignore me.
A lot of time, I read the reviews for a product and if someone says they used it in Carrara, then it goes in the cart.
I figure a few sales would be worth the trouble, personally, but if they didn't want to support it, just say so.
My answers:
1) How many pages do you have in your product library?
119pgs (and this number would have been much higher if Carrara got better support in the past few years)
2) What is the primary software that you use with these products?
Carrara 8.1 Pro and Carrara 8.5 Pro (these are the ONLY programs I use for my scene setup and rendering - everything else is used rarely and only for dynamic cloth, i.e. D|S for DS dynamics, Marvelous Designer for cloth simulations, Poser for Poser Cloth Dynamics)
3) Would you buy Genesis 3 products if they worked in your primary software?.
YES!
Also I have a question: Did anyone collect/organize this survey data? It would be nice to make some charts and send them to DAZ Marketing team.
Antara - it has already been done, check a few pages back for the summary and DAZ's response.
Just checking some of those numbers...WOW. I feel like a cheapskate. Certainly not as much as some of the posters, but definately more than I'd admit to the Missus. But, look at it a different way....Daz as a business has to always look at expanding or growing sales wherever they can. First and foremost I think they are a content provider, not really focusing on software, although they do peddle software, I think it's secondary in thier minds. With the rise of iClone, Unity, and Unreal Engine, and I'm sure there are others, they have just expanded thier market by what, 200%, 400%. They are actively looking to expand into markets that use software that is more currant if not better than anything Daz can compete with. Daz figures you have to admit are some of the best out there, and I believe that's what they are banking on.
Having mentioned some of the software, in my previous post, that is able to use DAZ content, with the exception of iClone, though not nessessarily, they are primarily game creation tools. Have you guys checked out the price of game licenses for DAZ content? That's where the money is. How much DAZ content that works natively in Carrara would you have to sell in order to match just one game license for a particular DAZ product? But, honestly I don't think that's the issue. They all use Daz content primarily via .fbx. That I think is the key, What can you do with that fbx file once exported out of Daz Studio? All the software I mentioned has a ready made solution for that question. You can basically use that Daz content any whay you choose and they possess to tools to do it. What about carrara??? Sure, you can import the fbx but then what? Animating the asset is a PITA to put it mildly. I'm sure there are work-arounds, but whats the point in that. Hence the insistance that Daz content work in Carrara the way it does in DAZ Studio. If you want that then why not just use DAZ Studio? Carrara is so much more than DAZ Studio......but what it needs is a better way of handelling fbx files, so that you can use them once in Carrara. My two cents
18
Carrara
Yes
Carrara seemed like a good compromise considering the price of many animation packages.. but not if the company that provides it treats it like the Dumb lesser sibling.
I dont hold much hope after the drive to get 8.5 out DAZ seems to have lost interest. Many of the problems reported with Gen 1 and 2 still haven't been fixed, When I added my say about Gen 3 in a BUG report I got the usual bland corporate guff " we are looking seriously into it" ............ SERIOUSLY......DAZ is looking into a problem that should not even exist. it know it has a Carrara using customer base and they didnt forsee it.
My gran daddy never said this but somes Grandaddy is " Cum on that not even Bull dung Thats Horse manure"
1) How many pages do you have in your product library?
20, going back to 2007 or so. Page 19 contains my first trial for Carrara 6, which I got around 3 years ago, and since upgraded to 8.5.
2) What is the primary software that you use with these products?
Carrara, though I'll ocassionally hop back to DAZ for Iray. I used to use Poser, but I really haven't used it in any serious work since 2012.
3) Would you buy Genesis 3 products if they worked in your primary software?.
YES. At least, I'd buy more of them.
1) 64 pages (Much of my purchasing moved to Rendo/RDNA when Genesis took over the store here)
2) Carrara is still my top choice, but Poser is rapidly taking #2. If DAZ forces me (as seems likely), I will go to Poser #1 with Carrara to fill in the gaps.
3) Probably not.
Well said, I argee entirely (except Poser might become choice 1b). . And this is from one of Carrara's best plugin vendors.
1. 11 pages
2. Carrara
3. Yes
This shouldn't be the focus of the conversation. Daz studio was partially funded by the Carrara community.
1. While we actually paid for new versions of Carrara while Daz studio was and is given away for free.
2. Many products were bought specifically by the Carrara community for use in Carrara.
Over the last several years, Daz3D has intentionally promoted Daz Studio over everything else. Just look at the company webpage and any Google advertisement. There are those who are currently driving the direction at Daz3d who have a vested interest to see their love child (Daz Studio) succeed. None of the Legacy software is given support - not their baby.
First Bryce, then Hexagon and now Carrara. I absolutely love Carrara. I feel that the Eovia was ahead of the time with it's concept and vision. But it's like going to a favorite cafe or hang out - that now has new management and new management has other priorities. I feel an attachment and a loyalty to Carrara. It seems that the new managers are wiling to neglect it and allow it to fall into irrelevance. I find myself not wanting to to be that loyal patron just to witness something good be managed so badly. Not to mention loyal customers being treated with such disregard.
Daz3d, if Carrara goes the way of Bryce and and Hexagon - you will not have simply lost another software that you really do not want to support, IMO, you will have lost your integrity.
Think about it Carrara community - when was the last time that any one (From Daz3D with any significance) stopped by and engaged the Carrara community in an open conversation about Carrara? There mind is made up. They are creating such an environment here that either we will get mad and walk away or we will hang on until they turn out the lights on Cararra (probably when a new operating system comes out). It will be communicated that Carrara support and development was no longer profitable business proposition. Carrara did not leave Daz 3d - Daz 3d left Carrara. If Carrara had been managed correctly it would have no competition - the Swiss knife of 3D.
I wonder, with a reputation of allowing software to die whose to say what may happen if Daz Studio ever falls outside the area of core product? As for me I am really interested in Strata Design CX 8. There is a lot in the software that reminds of Carrara - If only they implement bullet physics...
Either way - I can't sit by and vest time and interest in a software that has no future. Thanks Daz. Sad.
I don't remember it happening, but I've only been using Carrara for a decade or so, using my 48 pages of DAZ products almost exclusively in Carrara.
1) 75 pages
2) Carrara but I also use DS Pro and Poser Pro latest version.
3) Yes, when I get around to buying Gen 3 content maybe in the summer of 2016.
Carrara didn't pay for Daz Studio development. It paid for its own development. DS development is paid for with all the revenue generated from content. I don't remember Daz ever promising that Carrara will always be the latest and greatest. They bought it and all the other software packages to sell more content. Daz Studio is about content manipulation. Carrara is about content creation. Which one do you think will generate more content sales?
The whole 3D modeling market is maturing and with so much competition prices have come down. Blender is getting better and more user friendly everyday. How do you price lower than free?
Now given that reality and the cost of overhauling Carrara to beat the latest and greatest alternatives, would it really make sense to invest a big chunk of your content revenue into that update project when you can't be certain that you will increase sales by many fold?
DazStudio was funded by content purchases - from everyone. So do you really believe that only the content bought for Daz studio funded Daz Studio development? Almost all of the content that I have bought has been for Carrara. Is it wrong to make the observation that the Carrara community has (in part) funded the develpoment of Daz Studio? I'm not sure about you, but I paid for subsequent development versions of Carrara. In this I would expect that I, along with the rest of the Carrara community, would continue to fund development of Carrara and have some influence on development. WE HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN A VOICE.
It would be nice if DAZ3D conducted a poll to clarify the position of the community instead of neglecting the software to oblivion claiming that the Carrara community isn't paying enough $$$. The reality is - Folks pay for what they want. Could it be that the Carrara community wants more from development of Carrara than only development that drives Daz3d content sales? Maybe that's why $$$ support is down. How many ideas for a Carrara wish list have been offered by the community - and for what end? Daz3d is not only out of step with the Carrara community - even worse Daz3d is disengaged and uninterested.
In my opinion it does make sense to overhaul Carrara. All of the "great alternatives" exist because they are great "ALTERNATIVES". While Blender is free, all the major 3D companies are plugging away. IMO - Carrara is still one of the most approachable 3D programs available. If Carrara was re-written with the inclusion of optional modules written into the program such as Hexagon and a modern version of Bryce. One stop shop. A new Carrara, if done right would not only take market share from existing modelling programs, but from Vue, poser and various compositing software. But I digress.
I was in marketing and sales for 15 years. The most important aspect of the sales is the relationship with the prospective market (the customer). For Daz3D, the Carrara community will continue to dwindle. Unless there is a change of direction, by the time we have the next few operating system upgrades from Windows and Apple, we will have a new forum: "Does anyone remember Carrara?"
Wow - that says it all. I appreciate PhilW's effort in penning this and have enjoyed his tutorials. But to be honest, if I am reading between the lines here. What does it say about their sentiments concerning the message and concerns of the Carrara community? For that matter, what is there that is left to be said?
As a long standing customer - I feel just a bit offended by the inference.
My inference from their response was that they are planning to deliver an update to Carrara which will support Genesis 3 characters. No promised timescale (as they may not yet know how difficult it will be to deliver) but I believe the intent is there and that Carrara users are not abandoned. I know that they will not want to promise anything until they know they can deliver it. Just my take, for what it is worth.
Phil,
Your inference from their response was Interesting...
Unless I'm missing a response from DAZ, here's what you posted as DAZ's response:
"Yes, we are very mindful of the Carrara community and their support and contribution to the DAZ community and revenues. We take all actions very seriously, and haven't failed to consider these folks. I cannot give you more information than that officially right now."
Basically what they said is we know the Carrara community exists and we considered them in our decisions.
I'm just trying to understand how you infer from that "they are planning to deliver an update to Carrara which will support Genesis 3 characters", and you "....believe the intent is there and Carrara users are not abandoned".
All they had to say, as they did a few years ago, is that they are planning on releasing Carrara 9 "soon". Or that they are working on Genesis 3 compatibility. Or that they are working on a new Carrara version.
But they didn't. Not even "we are still actively developing Carrara". Or that we "will strive to make Carrara compatible with our new character releases". None of that.
I dunno, with all due respect, I think you're reading between lines that don't even exist...
To Infer - to deduce or conclude (something) that is not explicitly stated. The tone of what was said (and in particular "haven't failed to consider these folks") led me to my inference. You have seen the same statement as me and are pefectly entitled to make up your own mind. With all due respect.
I'm very familiar with the concept of "infer". In fact, it's what I often get in trouble for here in the forum, especially when I infer stuff about Carrara, even when it's based on facts and rational observations and conclusions.
My only point is that it's best if there is some rational data and analysis behind inferences. I just don't see any here. Unless you know something I don't about DAZ's plans.
and not just about Carrara. (think Bryce in a previous thread)
Did someone make an unwarranted and unsupported inference about Bryce in a previous thread??
The only thing I recall saying is that it has no OpenGL view (factual, I believe) and produces some awesome renders. Whew....I thought I was in trouble for a minute...
Bryce has had open GL since Version 5.5
Wow, my apologies for spreading false and misleading information.
I think the culprit is my faltering memory. It has been many years since I fired up Bryce, and at the time I recall being very disappointed at the rather archaic OpenGL implementation/version. In other words, the difference between the rendered image and the OGL image was huge. And one of the primary reasons I've dismissed Bryce for my own use. And in the intervening years I guess I translated that "it's OpenGL is too archaic to be of much use" into "Bryce still has no OpenGL".
Again, my apologies. But for me (and this is only my opinion), Bryce's OpenGL is very disappointing to say the least. Understandable, since it hasn't been updated in many years.