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Ahhh, okay, thanks for the clarification. .
DAZ 3D has never been a software company. They have always been a content company. Software has always been a vehicle for selling content. That's what they were when they purchased Carrara and Bryce and Hexagon, that's what they were when they were doing significant development on all three, and that's what they are now.
Here are Poser galleries
http://my.smithmicro.com/poser-photo-gallery.html#1
Currently, I use Modo and Autodesk Inventor when building most 3-D models. Inventor if a part has to be dimensionally accurate, Modo most of the rest of the time. If I want to use content, I use Carrara. I have Studio and Poser Pro 2014, but do not really care for them. I also have several other free or low cost programs that I have acquired through the years.
I really love to work with Carrara. I understand the functionality. I have full control of the scenes. (i.e. lights are not adjusted by little dots.) It fits nicely with my work flow, but I use it for fun.
Until DAZ steps up to the microphone and announces there will be no future releases of Carrara, there is no issue asking the company to add support for the new characters.
Are there more powerful programs out there than Carrara? Certainly. Are they as fun to use? That is a matter of personal opinion.
Enjoy working with the software you like.
Take Care,
ncamp
Please get back to discussing the topic of the thread and direct all comments to said topic rather than to each other. Thank you for your understanding.
Please get back to discussing the topic of the thread and direct all comments to said topic rather than to each other. Thank you for your understanding.
Sorry, will do.
I believe the topic is
So my questions to you:
1) How many pages do you have in your product library?
2) What is the primary software that you use with these products?
3) Would you buy Genesis 3 products if they worked in your primary software?.
90
Carrara
Yes
Why am I seeing this?
This should be fixed now.
sorry I was trying to post and the forum software glitched and saved my draft but I was listed as an unknown user, so was in limbo, I deleted the draft hopefully it is fixed
edit fixmypcmike fixed it thanks for that
I don't mean to derail anything, but I was trying to post the same question but I couldn't figure out how to submit it with the button missing---may I ask how you were able to post? My curiosity is killing me!
Also, I had time at last to read all of this thread and I'm glad to see the response Phil W received. I hope to see Carrara updated to use some of the new Daz3d stuff (V7, HD morphs). I thnink I would buy more of the new stuff if I new Carrara was being supported. I used to buy it just because I thought Carrara would be able to use it "someday", but I've held off on buying the new stuff since I don't know if Carrara will be "improved". I almost didn't renew my PC membership last time because of the lack of Carrara info----I don't think I'll renew next time if I don't see some action. That's not a threat--it's just my mindset at the moment.
well this is a fast thread ;)
Thanks Mike.
No, I didn't think it was your doing.
I suspect an expunge was attempted, with unexpected side effects, since I notice that something else that went missing is now back.
I'll say no more...
I went back two pages in the thread and found that the "Leave a Comment" box was uncorrupted there.
Doh! Lateral thinking failed me. I went back to page one, but didn't think I could post from there--I have no idea why my mind created that road-block. Thanks for the answer!
Highly relevant and valid observation.
Daz3D is a content business indeed. And Daz Studio is a 3D photo studio.
Mark Zuckerberg recently said something like, we know the important of photos but videos by/for the masses is the future...
And then of course, there is the Occulus and Holo lens new frontier...
In short, CG cannot get stuck in static photo studio business, content or software.
Known fact: Genesis 1/2/3 don't animate well in their own native showcse: primarily a STILL PHOTOS studio with low animation functionalities.
That's why I am here in Carrara, not over there in Daz Studio: to ANIMATE Genesis, with dynamic clothes in dynamic environment. To make VIDEOS.
UE4 Unity Lightwave C4D professionals and Blender misc crowd do drool over Genesis. Universality of character format is important.
But, Mixamo Makehuman etc move fast too. There is G6, and LW Genoma rig. Blender has similar dev WIP too. A potentially saturated scene.
Barring something drastic (like CARRARIZATION) happen to Daz Studio - and Iray notwithstanding, Carrara is actually the more relevant Daz3D-owned software in this post-YouTube post-Occulus era.
Sometimes the parent overestimate the WRONG child. It happens.
Will GameDev/Lightwave/Blender crowd or Carrara crowd spend more on Genesis3/ Daz3D store in the long run?
How to test that if Gen3 (allegedly) works better in Blender or Max than in native Carrara?
"Universal" except for inside the family? Lol. Great marketing strategy. Like Microsoft making OneNote works with Android and Apple but sideline the Windows 7 CORE USERS.
It doesn't matter if Carrarists are Poser or DS migrant. These are the LEGACY CORE USERS.
Not so long ago there was this highly established company called Maxis. They underestimated and apply deafening silence treatment to their decade-long long-suffering self-maintaning legacy core users (a million strong) and brute force 99% of resources to catch up with mythical SHORT TERM trend (fantasy 20 million). They spent and spent to chase high-maintanence new users and then bled. New users don't even pay $1.99 for basic add-ons, nevermind server upkeep. We all know what happened.
Core users who are willing to spend easily $300 UPFRONT on a CG tool in these post-Blender days, are important.
Core users are cheap to maintain too.
And thanks PhilW for bringing this discussion to dev attention.
Meanwhile, all it takes to get a scientific estimate on investment vs ROI is slightly more stringent stats collection, Bayesian level thoroughness not required, really. My guestimate is the same as 3 months ago - Carrara is a RELATIVELY low maintanence high return member of the family.
My sentiments exactly.
Sorry, but if they want a Universal Format then they better find a way to NOT require Daz Studio installed to work with it!
That is nothing more than an extremely localized format with a fancy export feature. I still don't like it and fail to see the advantages of something as cumbersome as Genocide over the last real stand-alone figure format they had (the Gen 3 figures) (even Gen 4 required Victoria/Michael 4 be installed in the same directory as any other Gen 4 figure or it failed miserably).
The concept sounds good on paper, but the implementation is nothing even remotely close to Universal and never will be until the figures will load in whatever program you want (like, say - Carrara?) without the need to go through some other program you don't want (like Daz Studio).
Of course, I don't even understand why anybody would ever actually want to render a human figure for anything, so take my opinions with a pillar of salt!
That's a good point. The idea of a universal format for, say, characters and content is a great one. But in practice I imagine it's something of a nightmare.
In my many years of experience, one of the most difficult things in the 3D world is import/export. It NEVER seems to work the way you want, and/or it's limited and only works with certain items, etc.
And I assume that's because the implementation of the same thing in two different apps could be vastly different. For example, take bones and rigging in a character. I assume a Maya bone and a Carrara bone are quite different. I mean you need to worry about weight mapping and influence zones and how they affect the mesh. And if you have this really cool V7 with awesome joint bending, you want to be CERTAIN that it's awesome in all the apps it goes into.
I dunno, I'm just assuming that this whole issue of new character designs is a LOT more complicated than it might seem. Hence the difficulties making new figures compatible with existing apps.
And then if the new developer has to sit down and figure out, say, the Carrara code, which he's never seen before, and the Maya/Blender/3DS/iClone/whatever code, which he's never seen before, and try to make a seamless integration, it must be a nightmare. And that's not even considering shading/texturing, which are certainly different in the different apps. Sometimes VASTLY different. Especially if you use any of the dreaded procedurals.
Seems like one big nasty nightmare to me.
I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion....the points I made previously seem to clearly point in the opposite direction. Did I miss something?
I had not thought of it that way, but you make a good point.
Your post made me wonder if there could be a market for a way to fully package things like Genocide for other software. It could be a geometry free sale item consisting of a custom rig, materials, and maybe morph target info all packaged in such a way that you could buy, say the Maya pack, Import Genocide's obj which you got from DAZ separately, then attach the rig inside Maya or whatever other program such customization kits are available for.
There could be a Blender Kit, a Cinema 4D Kit, even a 3D Max kit and one for any software that a retailer wishes to sell in the DAZ Store.
These kits would lose a lot of the new technology like auto fit and other weirdnesses, but the morphs, mats, and rigs should be an enticing product to get Genocide into other markets.
Besides, who needs clothing anyhow? It's overrated. I never touch the stuff myself, unless the terms of service where I happen to be require it.
Is Genocide a gaming thing?
Here is a related response of mine to a similar discussion at Renderosity, regarding "Carrara format" and why it does not tell the story, i.e. many buy other formats for use in Carrara:
DustRider -
Indeed. I have a hard drive dedicated to 3D content (and a backup, of course). Some statistics:
Carrara Format Items: 15 GB, 125 Individual Items. DAZ Purchases: 13 GB, 93 Items.
Poser Format Items: 121 GB, 2300 Individual Items. DAZ Purchases: 102 GB, 1600 Items.
I use Carrara for all the Poser Format items, I do not use DAZ Studio. Or Poser, except to get Poser 7's Runtime into Carrara's browser (the first thing I do after a reset).
Today I cancelled my multi-year Platinum Club membership at DAZ.
Yes you did miss something. The many sentences before the bit you chose to quote clearly backed up my guestimate. Kindly read again. :)
As to my conclusion conflicting wit yours - don't worry too much about it. Afterall your guestimate is as good as my or other's guestimates.
That's an interesting breakdown Steve,
My Carrara library consists of 6GB of content
Daz content is 66GB
and all other Poser content is 180GB
all used in Carrara except when it doesn't work then I will use DS and export it in collada or OBJ format to import into Carrara.
I didn't renew my PC either....
(what HeadWax just said) yeah... me too!
Just for the sake of accuracy, DUF does not stand for DAZ Universal Fileformat, it stands for DSON User File. DSON, incidentally, stands for DAZ Scene Object Notation.
I know that many here have expressed support for the approach that was taken in making our voices heard to DAZ about Carrara. And now I suppose only time will tell how DAZ choses to handle Carrara in the future.
But after sleeping on it, I'm starting to think that I am, quite possibly, as Jethro Tull described, "thick as a brick". Or maybe "dumber than a box of rocks".
Because honestly I can't figure out what useful info DAZ can extract from the data that was provided. This is not a criticism of anyone or anything, it is merely a continued discussion of the core issue of the thread, which is the gathering of data and submitting to DAZ. And this is a discussion forum, so….
I’m just asking for a little help to either verify that I am indeed dumber than a box of rocks and missed a key point or two, or maybe there's just a misunderstanding somewhere.
If you're not interested in further discussions on this topic, even though it is the core of the thread topic, then PLEASE stop reading now. But if you're willing to help a befuddled simpleton, please read on.
In my small mind I don’t see any way for DAZ to convert the statement “70 professed active Carrara users have a total of 3,000 pages in their Product Libraries” to any usable information, as far as I can figure out.
And I *think* the core issue we want to impress DAZ with is this:
So if 70 Carrara users have a total of 3,000 pages of products, somebody at DAZ still needs to figure out "Well, that means that the total future revenue potential from active Carrara users is something like $X if we invest in Carrara”.
Which means they need to somehow extrapolate the following, or something like it, from the data provided:
Now the 3 items in BOLD are the data I think is necessary for DAZ to extract useful info, but missing.
I think that, by definition, we already decided they don’t know the total ACTIVE Carrara user base, cuz if they did this thread wouldn’t be necessary. They’d just take their estimate of total active Carrara users, figure a ballpark for how much revenue the average DAZ user has contributed each year for the past few years, and multiply. And that gives you a reasonable projection of past, and hopefully future revenue stream from Carrara users. If you keep them happy, that is.
And there’s no way to tie the “Y dollars” or “recent years” to the data provided, since what was provided is just a summary of total number of items, with no reference to date purchased or amount of revenue.
Nobody but those who submitted data know WHEN those products were purchased, or what percentage were purchased vs. free, or how much revenue is represented by those products. They could have mostly been purchased in 2007 and 2008 when a longtime user started using Carrara (like me). Or they could have all been purchased in the last few years if it was a newer user.
And maybe the user only buys stuff that is free (there have been MANY free things offered over the years), or costs $10 or less cuz he’s on a tight budget.
Or, maybe money is no object and the user buys expensive bundles and software and game developer licenses etc. So maybe the 3,000 pages represents a total expenditure of, say, $10 million in the last 5 years, or maybe it represents only $800,000 in the last 10 years. Big difference, and a very important difference if you’re trying to estimate future revenue potential.
So where am I wrong on this? Anyone? Or maybe the "usable data" part is somewhat irrelevant to the "making our voices heard" part, which might be seen as sufficiently influential? Just trying to understand.
Thanks.
It has been explained many times.
You keep mentioning cold hearted profit maximization. OK, where on one company's income statement is the line for "someone who provides a similar service is giving it away for free"?
Profit is examined by calculating income and expenses of the firm reporting revenues and costs. Nowhere on one firm's balance sheet or income statement is the income or expenses of people who provide a similar service.
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-elements-of-an-income-statement.html
You keep repeatiing yourself, which makes me keep repeating myself. If you want to appeal to cold-hearted profit maximzation, at least refer to things that actually appear on financial statements.
the fast and the furious :)
I actually ran the results through a stat analysis and it is quite interesting. The sample is quite reasonable and gives a good confidence interval (given a confidence level of 95 percent)
SteveK said
Stezza said
I admit that, sadly, when the Pc comes up for renewing, neither will I.