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For me, G9 females are too masculine, and G9 males much too feminine. That's not an aesthetic that suits my tastes, so G9 holds little appeal.
I see creatures as being it's strength like genesis 1 which I also still use
I bought Genesis 9 because it's the first generation where I see renders using the best of those Genesis 9 characters that look as good as the best renders of those professional Maya, 3D Max, Blender, & so on, 3D artists. I'm not into realism much in 3D art but I do like to see good progress and that is progress that is too good to pass up. It's true though that toon Genesis 9 buys by me are much less necessary.
I'm currently taking part in a "Content Creation" Webinar over at Digital Arts where you learn how to rig clothing and other stuff properly. I want to learn how to rigg so that I can use my older content really properly on my G8 workhorse. Anyway, the course is taught by Esha, who's a PA here. Rigging between G8 and G9 is quite different. You have a couple of more bones to deal with, and if you want to make two rigs for the same piece of clothing, this does take a huge amount of time. I mean, Esha's a pro at rigging, and if I compare the times she needs for rigging and item to my own rigging times (and results), I get an idea just how complex this is.
What I want to say is, as a customer, of course I want the lowest price, and preferably a G8, G8.1 and G9 rig for that low price. But the low price I want, and that I'm "used to get" for a combined rig? Unless it's something that already was rigged for the previous generation and had to be re-rigged anyway for G9, I just don't see that happening, because we as customers are unwilling (or unable) to pay the extra price for it.
Just my thoughts.
Here is what I miss, but expected to come with G9:
-Better Joint bending, made possible with a mix of smart mesh topology, bones rigging and well thought through JCMs.
-More spine Joint/grouping, making it easier for torso bends. Avoiding this lack of flexebility.
Only G8 after dabling with G9. The G9 figure except for the face was a large step backward, so if I could return what I bought so far, I would. I was really hoping for cross joint musculature (a muscle doesn't attach at each end on the same bone), but G9 made it worse, not better.
well I grabbed another G9 character with the PAYFORWARD30 coupon
I guess I had wishlisted the whole makeup bundle but forgot about it. I don't really feel like spending money right now on something that was free with G8. I did figure out how to do it myself by adding an opacity map on a geoshell or something but it's just extra work for something that used to be simple. I just don't really like working with G9 as much, I don't like the base body or even V9's body and everything is a lot more work for worse results than G8. I did save out the shaders for the eyes to try on G8.1 but right now my whole DAZ Studio is not behaving after reinstalling on a newly installed C drive.I'll probably end up getting that makeup bundle at some point when on a deep sale but sorry G9, I'm just not that into you...
Have you tried this? https://www.daz3d.com/transgender-shapes-for-genesis-8 You can easily change genders with it.
Excellent if I want a teenage girl to have a father who wears miniskirts and midriff tops. (Also, it doesn't solve if you have existing characters who you want to combine morphs from to make a child).
One way or the other, I end up having to convert something (autofit and even the clothing converter tools have their drawbacks).
As is, I've got two teen male characters built on G8F, a canonically trans female character (built on G8F, but using some morphs that were originally G3F), a conversion of Michael 7 to G8F I occasionaly use, and... well, a lot more G3 to G8 transfers... I can put most clothing assets on the centaurs... I know all the tricks, I use all the tricks, I invented some of the tricks.
Even if we are to argue that G9's execution of a unisex base is flawed, we at least should concede that the concept of being naturally able to share the same morphs on relatives of different genders is meritorious.
Having to do all the rigging and whatnot for both generations takes a lot more time, meaning the result would have to be sold for a much higher price, which in turn would reduce the sales from people who only use one generation. Or to make it more clear: if a G9 only figure costs $ 15.- and a G8 only costs $ 15.- but the G8/9 figure costs $ 20.- there would be a few people who would buy the latter, but more people who buy one of the first figures.
So I can fully understand PAs doing no G8/9 figures, as they probably don't sell as well as, for example, G8/8.1 (or even G3/8) which were less different from each other and allowed to be used with the other generation's assets easier.
Waiting for G10 and may upgrade then.
As far as G9, I can't tell if the figure is male or female half the time. They kind of all look like the same person with a few tweaks to me.
https://www.daz3d.com/emotion-wheel-expressions-for-genesis-9
Don't know if it's just me, but this product especially has a weird vibe. Like they are all the same person with different hair color.
Maybe I'm just being too judgemental. Sigh. But I really liked the range of characters in G8 and they all had distinct looks.
Plus G9 doesn't have a FACS rig, as G81 has right from the start. And they keep telling the G9 FACS is better ..
G8F gets my $$$. Until DAZ corrects the joint bending problems with G9.
While yes, faces are the most important part here, the morphs can only be properly shared if it's the same geometry, so that's not a possible solution.
Mixture. With sales probably more G8. Concerning clothing for m+f, if you want varied content, it's an advantage, if it looks good. Often there are space suits and armor just for either of m or f. A modern team probably would have one design for one thing, regardless m/f, so it helps to simplify storytelling or scenario setup, if you have m+f clothing. I mean i can't do like "the men wear impenetrable full-body berserker-exosuits and the woman have no pants and have one armorless spot each at the heart, and right between the eyes."...
You can put male clothes or any clothes you want with autofit. And use Growing Up to your existing characters to make them younger. All the morphs already exist for G8/8.1 that can give you as good, if not better results than G9.
I never pay $15 for a character, I always get them on sale, but I definitely would pay more for a combo G8/G9 character than a one generation character. I'm not willing to invest much more into G9, I already picked up pretty much anything I need (except a pose converter & Growing Up which I'll get when on a good sale) and I have way too many G8s already. If a G9 is on super sale like the new VYK character for $2.99 with a DAZ+ item in cart yesterday and 50 cent poses or in a bundle that includes G8 stuff I like, I'll get it. But if there was a combo character that I liked I'd definitely consider that over a one generation character.
I'm wondering if PAs are selling more G8 back catalog now or new G9's. G9 doesn't have that many characters yet, so sales are probably decent for now. Time will tell which sell better. Newbies are more likely to jump on the G9 bandwagon but may be enticed into G8 with all the super low prices. G9 may get better as PAs get more creative with it but for now I don't see any improvement over G8. They haven't even come out with alien or fantasy morphs yet and some of my favorite morphs came from EmmaandJordy and Rarestone who are no longer here. Handspan hasn't come out with morphs yet. But I'm not really interested in re-buying everything AGAIN. Oso, RawArt and JoeQuick characters could be interesting, but G9 as a glamour model doesn't really work for me except some Mousso characters. I would buy a really handsome male G9, I wasn't interested in M9, but I can just morph one if needed, stil haven't used 99% of my previous generation males!
Autofit destroys the existing weight paint and JCMs, breaks rigid follow nodes and dForce add-ons, frequently fits poorly around the chest area, can be a nightmare if the material presets are hierarchical, and needs to be saved out as a new asset to stop the geometry bloating the scene file.
There's many reasons I specifically mentioned that autofit has drawbacks. Things like the RSSY clothing converter are better, but can still result in distorted fits.
I am confident that know more about converting clothes between different figures than the vast majority of the community - again, I put clothes on centaurs for a laugh - and I can categorically state that, no, things like autofit do not "give you as good, if not better results" than native compatibility. They're a port in a storm, but no more.
You're missing the point. If I already have a mum character and a dad character, and want to make a kid that resembles them both, I cannot do this with G8 without either transferring morphs or spending ages trying to recreate them from tweak shapes.
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For the record, I do still mostly use G8 (actually for similar reasons to what I'm saying above - moving my existing characters/assets to G9 involves a heap of conversion, which introduces issues and errors), but a unified base is definitely going to do some things better (at least on paper) than two separate bases.
G9's unified base also has what I would consider some drawbacks (the big one for me is losing the content categorisation; masculine G9 content is now buried in with all the rest), but the people here pretending that G8 is and will always be better in every respect is just preposterous.
I can only speak for myself, but I struggled with cross-gender fits and morph transfers for years on 8/8.1, and while what you're describing may be sufficient in many cases, the results I get with G9 are much better and much easier for me to work with. Autofit is actually awful at transferring anything that has extruded detail like straps, decorative metal elements, high collars, etc.
Something that probably makes a difference that I haven't seen brought up directly is that some people have permanent "actors" set up that are used in dozens if not hundreds of renders and need to be consistent and flexible. Trying to use an autofit item on a character like this is hit or miss because if it results in warping or stretching, that's something you either have to live with or fix every time. I'm sure plenty of people have setups like this and prefer 8/8.1 and that they have workflows to manage issues or projects that don't require it. It drove me up a wall, and G9 doesn't.
I can back this up. I have tried some truly wild stuff to make the characters I want to make, and there are limitations that mean always trying to make up for something that isn't working right.
This is kind of a tradeoff based on what personally annoys you more. Not having the most realistic bends in the world doesn't annoy me because I can fix those easily. On the other hand, often I can't even use external modeling programs to fix clothing that's been messed up by autofit, which means a lot of items are just off limits for my characters when I'm using a split base.
Prior to G9 I could not actually find a sword belt for one of my male characters because every single workable option was for G8F. There is a lot of potential stretching and warping that happens on an item located right on a major bend. But the first one released for Victoria 9 works fine on him.
I would say that's the HDR they put on the environment dome producing that as a reflection
not the texture
I did buy the V9 intro bundle with the 85% discount coupon at the beginning of MM, but I think that is going to be it and I'm still think about returning it. Prices for Daz G9 base figures are on average 25% higher than G8.1, and I do not have the impression I'm getting a product that is 25% better. I get the idea G9 is primarily a generation that is better for Daz/PA's rather than the end-user (more efficient workflow + price increase).
And I agree, I would like to see G9/G8(.1) products, but if the prices are going to be the higher the product better reflect that in the offered quality. In the end, it doesn't matter to me as a consumer if the extra rigging is more work, I only care about the quality of the product I'm buying, if it fits my needs/style and the price I am going to have to pay.
Sadly this isn't a Genesis 9-specific issue - there have been a lot of outfits for generations split by sex that I have reluctantly rejected due to excessively close following of the breast surface. I was hoping dForce would end this, but it hasn't. We do need to recognise that having a stand-off between fabric and skin incerases the compexity of the rigging and vastly increases the need for JCMs, even with the base shape already in posession of breast (or othe projecting) shapes.
I'll be slowly switching over to g9 from g8, but at the moment, without things that are still needed (ie Skin Builder 9, more geografts needed, clothing converters, morph converters, etc) no real reason to switch yet. I have bought some things already to get read to switch, but still using g8.