Daz Studio 4.9 Beta Now Available..
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"Sadly, at least one person must purchase the product for it to by piratted; alternatively it is a Daz employee, neither of which is a pleasant thing to contemplate."
Hey nicstt, it's even better than that. Most likely the doot-heads downloading the stuff from warezz sites have accounts here too - the DAZ program itself is free, there's no reason to warezz it, and they probably want to update to the latest version. Which brings about some spectacularly interesting possibilities that don't include DRM...
One of the reasons I've felt comfortable spending thousands of dollars on content here is that I have confidence that once I download the content, I'll be able to use it for as long as I want, in any way I want (within reason), on any future machine I may be working with. Adding DRM to the content makes me extremely worried that I will have unforeseen trouble accessing my content in the future.
Obviously, no company wants to purposefully inconvenience their customers, but in my experience software that needs to "phone home" to verify that I am a legit user can frequently cause headaches. Just as an example, in the last day I've been locked out of using my paid for copy of Marvelous Designer because I upgraded my computer's hard drive and Marvelous Designer mistakenly now thinks I'm trying to use their program on another system without logging out of the old one. (Oops, I should have deactivated my MD account before upgrading any hardware, sheesh...) Still trying to resolve that issue. It's problems like that which would prevent me from ever investing the kind of time and money into Marvelous Designer which I've happily invested in the up to now no-strings-attached DAZ ecosystem.
I'm a person who really likes to tinker with my tools, and in addition to the money I spend on DAZ stuff, I spend hundreds of hours making my own custom morphs and shaders. The idea that some fluke in the DRM system or unforeseen event could cause me to lose access to my content or the work I've put into it makes me feel light headed and that I should switch platforms as soon as possible to an application that lets me do my thing without needing to jump through hoops.
It's simply the worry that future content may give me access problems that will have me looking for any possible alternative before I buy it, certainly I won't buy anything with DRM on a whim impulse purchase. I'd only buy such content when I absolutely need it and can't get it somewhere else or make it myself. That would cause at least this user to spend a lot less money here. I love DAZ content, I wish we didn't have this looming in the future.
Here is a very interesting question which I hope someone will step up and answer:
What happens when Daz3D decides to close up shop and no longer exist as an entity? Will all the lovely DRM Infested content similarly dry up and blow away? Such has happened before with both music and e-books. By infesting the content with DRM, Daz3D is not only making a "walled garden" but also putting its customers at risk of losing some pretty large investments should the company ever decide to close up. And yes, at this time there may be no plans to close up shop, but as has been stated many times before, nobody has a crystal ball.
Protecting the content creators is good. This method of doing it is bad. Please, step back from this ill-advised plan. Dont lock your customers in a walled garden.
Funny irony here. Unrestrained creativity is important to art's survival. Daz3D is a company that makes its money off of people trying to create art. By locking the customers into a walled garden Daz3D is restraining creativity. This fact alone should be enough to cause them to re-think this crazy idea.
In the past I believe some companies with DRM have enacted special downloads when going out of business, so customers can continue to use their content for however long they maintain their backups.
It would be nice if Daz thought through a contingency plan along those lines.
And just how long will we be waiting for this "upcoming offline support"? Will it be before 4.9 goes "live" or is it one of those things that will be given to us in the timeframe generally known as "Daz Soon'?
DAZ_RawB has said several times that the offline install option will be available before the end of the beta.
What if a comet hits the earth before then... Hu?
Thank you for replying so quickly. I guess I missed that fact in all the deluge of information. Apologies for asking a redundant question. This beta has given many of us a lot to think about and consider.
If they have, or if they are, it would be wonderful if they would let us know this. If there was a guarantee that people would not lose access to their investments should Daz3D fold up operations, it might go a bit towards easing some very valid concerns from people who have been burned in the past by cloud based services and DRM.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to hep coals of fire on your head - just saying that since it has been said several times it's a fairly strong commitment.
Hypotheticly if DAZ were to cease operations exactly what program where you planning to use all that DRM free content in?
Nothing to prevent me from taking the time to learn 3dsMax or Maya or even Blender. There are already exporters that will allow much of the content I have purchased to be used in those packages. I use Studio because its what I started with and am currently working on learning Carrara ( which uses everything from my library but Genesis3 and Iray specific products.) If DAZ did cease operations, I would probably end up going with the subscription based services from Autodesk. Yes it would be more expensive and I would definitely have to rearrange my budget but, it IS an option. Blender is free of course but I would probably be up and running again faster if I spent more to have better support acess while I was learning. Thats my hypothetical aswer to your hypothetical question.
I sincerely hope that DAZ never closes up shop. I like having the software solution and a good amount of my content coming from the same company. Personally I have had nothing but good experiences with DAZ. I hope that does not change. However, this new way of doing things that DAZ is presenting in the 4.9 beta does have some possible issues that come along with the bug fixes and updates to the render engine
Is there another thread that explains Daz connect more?
And I was absolutely certain that someone had a vendetta against me.
With the log in issue.
Yes, and yes.
I hope it is all resolved to everyone's satisfaction.
Seriously? You are equating waiting for discounts to piracy? Maybe you did not intend to but your statement can be construed as insulting to quite a few people. Yes. I do wait for sales on a lot of products. So what? I do have a job and bills to pay and a budget to try and stay within. This is a NORMAL situation and nothing about it is disrespectful, dishonorable, or illegal. So what if I dont buy your creations during the intro period every time you release something. If they are something that I find useful I DO buy them and you still get a percentage of what I pay.
I really hope you did not intend your post in the manner in which it is read.
The copy of Daz I have; of course, that presumes it is registered. :)
I am going to ask this, because I genuinely need to know. How? Please be specific in how this has an effect on your workflow.
On a different site I just posted an answer to this same statement:
I own a Adobe Photoshop CC license. I use CC often at work when I have an intermittent Internet connection. Even though I have a valid license I get a "Trial time limit" has run out at least once a week. Most of the time it's once a day.
Then I have to find an Internet connection, log in, validate my license, wait for the registration to update and download...
Last month I was on the road. With a very slow and very expensive Internet connection. Which only worked some parts of the day.
Before I left I installed the new Reality. I registered, installed the license, and tested it.
First day on the road, Reality said my license was invalid. I had to get the internet connection, re-register, etc.
I had to redo the license every time I rebooted. Sometimes crippling my work flow when the internet connection was unavailable.
I mention this because even the most stable, bulletproof online licensing scheme will encounter hiccups. Most of the time these are easily overcome with a readily available Internet connection.
When that connection is unavailable then it is crippling.
I also want to add how my workflow typically goes:
I set up a lot of scenes mostly while travelling and having no internet connection. When I get home, I move these scenes over to one of my Desktops.
One Desktop will be rendering a final version.
At the same time at another desktop I will be doing test renders on a scene that needs minor tweaks. When the tweaks are done (and the other render is done) I will move it to the first desktop for final rendering.
Again, at the same time, I will be working on my laptop with a less refined scene. Setting it up to the point where I can shift that to the minor tweak desktop.
With the new "only one log in at a time" scheme, all of this goes right out the window.
You only need to log in to download/install/update content. Not to run the software, not use content, not render.
I hope Zev0 didn't mean it as it reads. (If Zev0 or any other PA has issues with Daz's sales methods, then I suggest they take it up with them.)
I don't think he meant it in that fashion but what he's saying *is* actually true and describing basic macroeconomics. All consumer industries have a race to the bottom, which massively hurts content creators and sellers. Piracy is simply an extension of that supply-demand curve, in that there will always be near-infinite demand of a good that is essentially free, legal or otherwise.
Unless reasonable and effective measures are taken to protect content creators, this race to the bottom will only get worse.
The music industry has failed against piracy, the film industry too and DAz will also failed on this as long as one can save any files. I'm sure, that the new DAZ Content politics will bring new energy for Poser.
iTunes, even before when their music files were DRMed, would disagree with you. The piracy surrounding the music and film industry is a *way* larger and nuanced discussion than simply "DRM doesn't work".
I won't knock it until I've tried it. I was skeptic of using DIM when it first came out, but now I actually try to convince people to use it. Keep in mind the saying "it's always ugly first before it gets pretty". And honestly, it is what it is. If you like DAZ Studio and their contents, you will buy them, why? because you like working with DAZ Studio with the recent improvements made to the software plus contents for other programs tend to be more expensive, just my two cents on this whole issue. Change is good. Give it a try. I have more of a beef with artists who come out with certain products (that I buy) and do not maintain them to work with an upgraded version of a program or plug in, but that's for a different forum thread.
You only need to log in to download/install/update content. Not to run the software, not use content, not render.
Then either I am not understanding the point of this encryption and key.
Or you are not understanding the point I am trying to make.
Theoretically what happens if, for some reason, the decryption key on my computer is deleted or damaged. How do I then access my purchased content? If I don't need the key except for installing, why encypt it at all?
Plus you avoided my other question. What happens when I, as a legitmate user, attempt to access my content on two (or three) different machines at the same time?
If that somehow happens, you log in, your computer syncs and you are back up and running.
What happens? You access it on two, three, whatever, machines at the same time. You can only log in to one computer at a time, you don't need to log in except to download/install/update content.
I can use stuff without a connection right now. If I can't in the future, I won't be a customer.
You only need to log in to download/install/update content. Not to run the software, not use content, not render.
I love DIM it makes downloading and updating so much easier, and installing more quicker, and apologies I also usually buy stuff on sale, if I don't get it on intro it gets wishlisted and sadly sometimes somethings sit longer than others
For those that are worried about being logged in to use DS 4.9, here is a screen capture of the welcome/login screen with DS 4.9. NOTE the "Work Offline" option (you can chose to have this display every time you start DS. or just have it start up with the preferred option selected) - simply select work off line and DS 4.9 works like 4.8. You don't need to login to your DAZ 3D account to use DS 4.9 or your content. You only need to login to use DS Connect. Seriously, IMHO instead of spreading and consuming so much FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt), it might be worth the time to download the Beta just to check things out yourselves. It won't affect your working version (non-beta Public Build) of 4.8, and you can see for yourself how this may affect you, and submit tickets based on your experiences to DAZ 3D.
Now I'm not 100% happy with content DRM because in my experience, even the most un-obtrusive DRM schemes tend to be a real PITA at some point (even loosing your paid for product if a company suddenly goes away). But, I thought I should at least mention that right now, the DS 4.9 Beta does not limit your usage of DS or usage of your content in any way if you chose to work off line, nor does it force you to connect to DAZ 3D to use DS after the initial install/registration (you do need to connect to initially validated your installation).
No offense but it sounds like DAZ is taking the cow half way to town and trying to sell it.
If the key is only needed to install content then what is to stop a legitimate user from installing, then zipping up the installed content and posting that for download?
If the content is still encrypted after installation (which I presume) then the key is needed to access content, which is where my problem begins, since I may not have internet access. Which means I will be dead in the water until I do. Which may seem like an unlikely scenerio to someone not having felt the pain of this same DRM issue. (Like being on a six hour plane and finding that nothig on your laptop works.)
Now we get to the next question. Why do this? It's not going to stop any pirates because you really are not putting any hooks in to stop them. (I.e. when illegal content is used, the IP address is sent back to a server somewhere, etc.) And don't take that as a suggestion to do that or assuming that I think that would be okay, because I don't. I am just pointing out that you are waiving a stick with no force behind it.
Not to mention:
1. How long will it be before someone figures out how to dummy a bogus de-encryption key?
2. Or sets up a recursive subroutine that intercepts the key transmit and sends back a false okay?
3. Or pirates someone's legitimate key? (And how will that innocent person prove that it wasn't them? And will they loose access to their content because they are presumed guilty?)
4. Or, even simpler, just cracks the encryption and hosts the de-encrypted files?
In the end, the pirates end up with better versions of the content then the legitimate users because it is all unlocked.
Have you considered trying to beat the pirates at their own game? If you are concerned with torrents, then download some of the active ones. Record the IP addresses that are also downloading (not hard to do) and cross reference the prime seeder with your own IP logs. If it is a legitimate customer, you now have a pretty good case for who it is.
Or create your own bogus torrent with DAZ content in it, but cripple the content. Put a timer in the content that locks the content after X number of days. Or offers an incentive to buy the content legitimately.
I work in IT security. I know there is a problem. I know there is very little chance your scheme is going to even dent it. Smarter people have been working at this for years now and no one has a good answer.
For every one person you have working security 40 hours a week, there are thousands of people actively working to break said measures.