Daz Studio 4.9 Beta Now Available..
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Some good stuff here, TY.
Anyway, bed time.
I've spent not only thousands but tens of thousands dollars in the DAZ store (just for fun - no commercial use).
For me there's only one thing to say: I'm not willing to buy DRM protected (encrypted) content
because I had some bad experience with such stuff in the past.
Also sorry for the PA's who defend the new DAZ policy. I have a doubt that this will increase sales.
Rawb if you're still here I have a question? I downloaded and installed 4.9 beta but haven't opened it up yet. Will I still need to use Connect with your "1995 workaround"? Or will it be done another way?
And thank you again for hearing us!
So, will it be possible to get a key for a machine which never, under any circumstances goes online?
Thanks Rawb. I'm going to give it a try and actually connect to see what happens. That means a hulluva lot of metadata coming my way. If you folks hear a loud Ka-Boom! then you'll know my computer exploded.
And that can be done without the encryption. Any updated library features will be the sugar-coating to the DRM bitter pill.
Automated downloads, Smart Content (what a misnomer), and downloading files to install locations are fine features for those who want them, but many of us do not, and it's great that they're optional (for now, anyways). Again, you can do all of that without the encryption.
It works FOR NOW. I'm not seeing any kind of commitment to keeping it working beyond the immediate future, and there's plenty of incentive for DAZ to scuttle it entirely. (Purely for the sake of combating piracy, of course.) A pirate can buy one of Stonemason's sets (no morphs, no rigging) from DAZ with encryption for $40 (full price, no discount) OR they can download an exported OBJ with texture files and no encryption from a warez site for free. Hmm -- tough choice. And very possible if DAZ leaves in the ability to export to other apps. As for more complex items (Michael 7, for example), even a limited version for free with no encryption might be more tempting than paying for the fully-functional version with DRM from the DAZ store. (And believe me, it WILL be, for some, should anyone make it available -- which I'm betting they will).
But -- as I've already pointed out -- that likely WON'T be the method the pirates opt for, anyways. They'll go with the tried-and-true: hack the app, not the content -- the app's where the real limitation will be, anyways. (That is, the ability to use the content at all without a valid encryption key -- everything else is just gravy.)
Actually, I CAN get onboard the idea of cloud-base render-for-fee -- I wasn't implying that that was a bad thing in itself. What I can also see happening, though, is that DAZ then restricts us a to crippled renderer in an effort to push us to use that cloud-based render service (since the ability to export scenes to other rendering apps -- including Reality/Lux and Octane -- will likely have been stripped out). Or the excuse then becomes "licensing doesn't allow us to distribute a fully-featured renderer as we have customarily have done, so if you want a full render, please enter your credit card number now."
Well that is good news if true. But at least once I have been made to check a new EULA to be able to redownload old purchased content, so it wouldn't be the first time the rules have been changed post-purchase lol.
That's good to know. It would have been even better to know it clearly from the beginning.
I get the feeling this is "have we thought this through properly?" take two. Some sample questions to consider — What happens to people using the beta who did the full re-download, if you do reconfigure the Connect data setup? Will everything be re-re-downloaded? Will the files in /data/cloud/ be automagically moved, or left orphaned and taking up HD space?
Okay, a lot of my most critical questions about Connect (considering I'll never use it) have been satisfied enough for me to go ahead and use 4.9 when it comes out of beta. Not before then, though, I don't do betas. Better make sure you've thought of all the "they'll never set up their content like this" scenarios...
I guess no-one has found the Carrara developers yet
As I've said before, smart developers steer clear of threads like this. I'm just not that smart.
As a photographer, I have had to get used to being told that there is *no way* to prevent copyright infringement of photos that I make available to other people. I can make it slightly more difficult, or more inconvenient, and I can limit the resolutions I make publicly available. But the moment I send a file to someone else, it's out of my control. And there is nothing, NOTHING, I can do except register my work and actually sue people and web hosts who willfully infringe my IP.
Pretending that there is a solution to this problem -- or trying to soothe frayed emotions by suggesting that even a partial solution will be in any way effective -- isn't doing anyone a service. The truth is that if you can't handle seeing your work infringed, being a freelancer is the wrong business for you -- because unless your work is utter rubbish, it will happen. I'm not saying that you must resign yourself to it. But I do think that there are a couple of things an artist or freelancer can do that would probably be more beneficial to your business and your mental health. 1. Talk to a copyright attorney, and learn how to pick your battles. 2. Accept that your work will be infringed and in many cases there is nothing you can do about those specific instances. 3. Get politically active and take on search engines, web hosts, whoever you believe is enabling infringement.
Retailers hate shoplifting. That is a kind of theft that results in actual, calculable loss, as something tangible that cost money is gone. And retailers do as much as they can to prevent shoplifting. But no retailer can completely eliminate all external AND internal theft of inventory. And any retailer who lets their anger get the better of them over these losses will not be in business long. For retailers, it is a cost of doing business. Why on earth e-tailers should feel themselves somehow immune to such problems is beyond my comprehension. It is what is, folks, and getting too self-righteously outraged is only going to shorten your life, not improve it.
Edit: All that said, I like Rawb's long response -- and the movie references. :) I also don't blame Daz one bit for attempting this, and it's quite surprising that they're actually going so far as to get customer input. Rawb's right: as far as DRM goes, what they're suggesting is about as mild as can be expected. I think it's unnecessary and probably mostly pointless -- BUT I am not a Daz executive or stockholder. It's not my place to decide what a business should do to protect its IP or even just to soothe the nerves of its employees/contracted artists/ or investors. But I do object to being told that being against DRM is tantamount to siding with copyright infringers. That's a blatantly false and inflammatory thing to say. C'mon, Morgan. Get real. We are all paying customers here. And as customers we are, regardless of our opinions, on the same side. :)
I downloaded the Beta, and in the store section, it's showing PC Anniversary Bundle 3 at $80.10 instead of $9.95. Interestingly enough, the Fog product is correct, the Birth of the Wicked, and all other products around it are correct. It says at the top Logout so I assume I am logged in.
You might check again, I see the prices fine....though this is off-topic for the thread, unless you mean other than in the store.
Probably means using the store connection within Studio...
I'm talking about in the studio 4.9. I logged in and out several times BTW.
EDIT: I shut down the store twice (clicked off the tab) and the third time it worked, showing $9.95. This isn't exactly a confidence booster so far as using the store in the studio 4.9
@DAZ_Rawb, I'm addressing this to you because you seem game for trying to soothe people's fears here, and I'm very worried that if encryption to future DAZ content becomes standard it will mean the end of me being a DAZ customer (I like buying from DAZ and don't want that to happen). My main concern (based on various troubles I've had with anti-piracy measures in other software) is that content/software I buy from anywhere (not just DAZ) that is encrypted and requires a key for every legal installation introduces the possiblity that at some point I will migrate to new hardware, and for whatever reason (such as the company changing hands, changing policies, or shuttering their doors) I can't get a new decryption key. The introduction of DRM to DAZ content would make it something I couldn't rely on in the long-term, and therefore would greatly change my spending habits here. I spend several thousand dollars a year here, somewhat secure in the knowledge that my content is backed up on my hard drives and I'll be able to access it on any machine I want to in the future, even if DAZ's company disappears one day. Over the years, this adds up to a significant chunk of change. I can't see myself buying thousands of dollars of content which relies on DAZ to send me a key every time I get a new computer for the rest of my life. That would be a foolish investment in my mind, since there is a definite possibility that DAZ users will live longer than the company DAZ will.
If I continue spending here for the next ten years in the way that I have been, I could easily get $100,000 into it. However, I would never spend that kind of money on something that could one day just POOF be gone in some unforeseen future eventuality where decryption of the content becomes unavailable to me. Companies come and go every year. If I'm only allowed access to future DAZ content so long as DAZ exists to give out new keys, I'd expect to pay a far lower price for that more limited and potentially one day unusable product, like 90% off or it just ain't happening for me.
I'm sticking with relatively future-proof content that I can back up indefinitely and don't need to seek permission to use after the initial purchase. I hope people at DAZ understand this point of view. I have nothing against anti-piracy philosophically or personally, and I have the utmost respect for the PAs in here who are defending this move by DAZ, but I simply can't afford to spend this kind of money on content that feels like it has a built in self-destruct feature where if the company closes, my content can no longer migrate to a new machine. Maybe I could spend a few bucks here and there with that kind of risk, but I could no longer justify to myself spending thousands a year.
Anyway, Rawb or someone else, I hope you can make me feel better about this, cause it looks kind of dire to me.
Isn't providing an unencrypted product Zip file of drop and play content. A little like parking your car out the front of a halfway house with the windows down and the keys in the ignition with a little sign on the seat saying "Please don't steal me."? ...
Are you aware we reached the generation 7? I use mainly Genesis 1/2 not V4!
Mimic 3.1 totally lacks of support for Genesis 1/2/3 and the free plugins you can find online works only with LipSync in the 32bit version of DAZ, since in Mimic 3.1 you can't use them due the lacking of a working 3D model for it.
Basically you are telling me "Buy Carrara and Mimic Pro because it's the only way you can make speech animation in a 64bit environment".
Can't they just create a plugin for Mimic 3?
Anyway better stop here, we are going OT...
If there is any key nessecary to use DAZ content it's only a matter of time, since Key generators are available. What you get is a little time, nothing more. DAZ should save the money for this protection things and invest more in really needed features, like dynamic hair and clothes tools.
Meanwhile i understand users, who always use older versions. I think DAZ 4.8 will be on my computer forever.
Why do people lock their houses when they go out, when all a burglar needs is a tool as complex as a rock to gain entry?
Seems like leaving it unlocked and doors wide open would make more sense, then you would only need to replace your stolen posessions and not worry about replacing the smashed window or busted locks as well...
Well, you might prefer the alternative, that someone always draws the short straw; Murphy at work /nod
Folks keep making the same point, or similar, and while there has been some good feedback: I'm still waiting. The killer for me, is logging onto a server to proved what I own is mine. Yes I own it, just like I own a book; there are restrictions on what I can do with the content, but the book I own. If I don't take care of it, then I lose it, but that is down to me (yes I am responsible not someone else). Whereas this system takes that responsibility away from me, even with the assurances made of there always being downloads; always is a long time. And as stated, all there has to be is a break in that feature of a day or two and we could be impacted.
Those that don't make backups are leaving the responsibility with someone else; there choice.
Those of us that make backups, well we're having that option changed (not exactly removed anymore) and then being told its for our benefit.
You made adjustments, but we're waiting on one critical one.
To those who are saying they will never intall 4.9, once those products start appearing in the store with a little C for Connect icon in the bottom corner, they might quickly change their minds. It will be either change over or go without.
And the push marketing approach of having products appear in the 4.9 software itself will have great appeal for the impulsive buyer.
At least I think this is what Daz in banking on anyway. Time will show if they are right in their marketing decisions.
I think what should be done when the time comes is that Daz should provide a free product with DRM so people can see if and how it affects them if in anyway. I do feel most people are just fearing the worst without even seeing how the new protection system will even work.
Okay, I'm astounded. Either I am not understanding, or I am really impressed.
I installed 4.9. My 4.8 is separate, working like a charm. (For people who had that question.)
But I'm confused. What's the talk about a serial number? Here's what my experience was: it had a screen that had me give my email and password, so I would connect to my account. I did. Presto. All my Smart Content was there and so was the Content Library. The store was also showing. No serial number required.
Keep in mind I had thousands (4,160 to be exact) installed in my 4.8 studio using DIM. It took what, a minute or two to sign in and my studio was there and setup. So I am REALLY confused. When we're talking about logging in to our account and ALL PRODUCTS metadata being downloaded, did that happen? Only 4000 are DIM'ed, but that's not anywhere near all of them. So how was this up and running in literally a minute or two? Is there a way to check for the metadata? (I'm not very technical.)
They aren't downloaded; they will download as you use them. If you donwload them all, it will take a (errr) while. The meta data is small, or relatively in your case.
Are people getting the Public Build or the Beta? Is there a difference?
There seems to be a little bit of a misconception about this. You log into the server to get your key essentially that can decrypt data. You can install (getting a relationship file that is encrypted by your key) for every product you can save and use offline, or connect and get it online, essentially. This is almost exactly how DIM works except DIM is online only and it will work for any IM zip file even those someone may not legally own. But in order to download and install your content, be it through the store, through DIM, or now directly in Studio, it always checks if you own it. What the encryption does is make it harder than literally copying up the zip file they downloaded without any modifications for people to get copies that will work out to distribute.
People can still edit files if they really want to, although it is more laborious to get to it. We identified a way to do that which we'll go into when we get things a bit more polished so for those that really want to tweak the source, you can. The only thing which is harder now is manually categorizing your content in a file structure. Its been highly recommended not to move files around for a long time now, but we're going to have some discussions this week and early next week on some quality of life things we might be able do to accomidate those even though every developer of studio thinks it is silly to do it that way compared to categories or smart content.
The harder issue is this one, and one not a lot have asked but has been part of our internal discussions since day 1...
What happens if a Godzilla attacks Salt Lake and our entire system collapses and is unrecoverable and it is impossible to get your customer key again? That part is a lot harder and requires a degree of trust because we can't say anything about it that we can actually show you "hey, here is the solution right here" and isn't an applicable thing until you guys can start buying content which is Daz Connect only. The rough plan up to this point is a poison pill. We don't know if it is going to be in a policy form or technology form or both. It is still in the planning stages on exactly how we implement it. The basic idea is if Daz goes away completely, which we have no plans to go away and it isn't looking like that will be the case anytime soon, everything will be unlocked or released without the encryption.
Now I'll go to sleep and wait for the comments on how that doesn't mean anything unless you can show it, which we can't other than saying "yeah, we have something for that" and won't be able to realistically show or distribute it unless that sort of event happens. For those that are a little trusting and not prone to chase logical fallacies down the slippery slope to figure out our "true intentions" and how evil we are (seriously, some of the conspiracy-like theories that some have come up with on this literally made us laugh out loud), this sort of thing has been part of the discussion internally since day 1 and something we will either have in place or the policy in place before public release, depending if it is a technical solution or policy solution.. even though the techincal solution would still require part of a policy solution to be distributed in that instance.
I hadn't found the store tab till now. However, as stated, this is a beta.
I lock the doors and windows... And set the alarm.
The public build is the beta. Daz releases different types of beta's. Eg a public build is for the public to try out and give feedback, a publishing build is one that is stable to create content off. So for us PA's who want to develop using 4.9, we have to wait for the publishing build beta.
Public Build - This channel is where the builds that are not considered stable yet are provided for testing by the general public. This channel typically provides a build that is in the BETA phase of development, but technically can provide a build in the ALPHA phase.
Publishing Build - This channel is where builds that are not considered ready for General Release, but are considered stable enough to introduce into a production environment by early adopters, are provided our Published Artists. This channel typically provides a build that is in the BETA or Release Candidate (RC) phase of development.