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That's what it takes! Sweet! That's on my bucket list as well. Maybe give Diomede a nudge (PM) and maybe he can direct us to some links to where he has info on the subject here. He's quite good at it now, I think. He has a whole slew of Carrara Figures he's made!
We need to set a standard for carrara figure creation =/ a set list of wants and expectations. I want to know and study what's involved in the process.
Tough call. So far, my favored system is Generation 4 Daz figures, simply because the system allows us to add or remove morphs from the figure being used on the fly. Genesis and its newer counterparts work great for Daz Studio (?) in that the database allows 'only those morphs that are used' to add any weight to the figure being used. This is NOT the case in Carrara. When we save Genesis, all morphs in our library are saved within the CAR file, making it (often unnecessarily) quite a hefty file.
These might be just my views, however. Best hear from others before putting any stock in these words. The Genesis figure is so much nicer in so many ways - when I do use it, the hefty file size doesn't often peeve me. I love how deformable the darned thing is (Genesis 1, I mean) that I still buy new shapes and textures for it. Heck, since Basic male uses M4 UV Texture maps, and Basic Female uses V4 UV Texture maps and Basic Child uses K4 UV Texture maps, I still by texture packs for those (M4, V4, K4) as well!
Carrara allows us to Import Morphs, I think... I've seen the button in the model room but haven't tested it. But that could potentially be a PITA for the average user - certainly not a great selling point to the causal customer... or Daz.
So perhaps the best option is to not make a super-changeable character, but rather individual characters, each with their own shape, with only the standard viseme, expressions, and the like type of morphs built into them.
Like, start with a base figure, all weight painted and ready to go - with the main set of morphs for facial expression and those needed to make the figure operate properly, then alter that base to make new individual characters as their own separate products?
Just brainstorming here.
I like the Genesis figure too, lol but ultimately we "should" detach from our poser/studio mentality and think carrara only. That's the challenge.
I've played with those makehuman figures, but there has to be more than just having the skeleton in place. And they're rigged pretty good too, translated very well to carrara. I doubt I could do better.
So facial expressions, and clothes... poses would be cool too.
MatCreator, setting a standard for Carrara only would be good... sounds like a good idea to me... but I'm no expert... not even close.
Dart, I wonder if there is a way to work some Mistylike magic on the genesis breed and remove all refs to unwanted morphs. Pehaps someone could write a plugin so that when Genesis is loaded that you could choose only the morphs needed would be loaded. Just ideas... that's all I have.
I agree entirely.
You mean their rigging works well in Carrara? Lost me with the skeleton thing....
make sure no mipmapping either so all versions of Carrara can use the file
Right. I was only talking about a way to distribute morphs with a new figure. When it comes to Genesis, I just load it, use it, save it. If I had to go through all that, I simply wouldn't use it! LOL
However, I haven't tried this yet (mainly because the heavier file size doesn't bother me so far), but I was going to experiment with making more than one "My Daz3d Library", keeping each as a different sort of install as follows:
My G1Male - only install Genesis 1 and all realistic-like male content (including shape morphs, etc.,)
My G1Female - only install Genesis 1 and all realistic-like female content (including shape morphs, etc.,)
My G1Monsters - only install Genesis 1 and all Monsters and creatures content (including shape morphs, etc.,)
Etc.,
In my rr free stuff section, I took the make human male and female and "carrara-ized" them... I think they would do nice as a starting point for us to go on. We can reference them instead of poser or studio figures because they lack that attachment that will ultimately be the goals downfall.
From now on, you lose 10 cool points for referencing poser or studio =P
I forgot how I exported/imported them, but I did that, sized them correctly, and saved them as carrara objects. The rigging all credit to make human, but it is damned good I think. So it gives us a "start", we don't have to recreate the wheel just yet.
So........ how could we improve the rigging. It's safe to say that the rigging in carrara is just a snap, it's the "other stuff" that comes after. How could we make facial expressions, poses, clothes, handheld items that move with the figure......... how would we extract and edit uvs or paint custom textures.
John lost 10 points btw...
How would we avoid mipmapping?
What is mipmapping???
Facial expressions 1 - traditional morphs can be created, saved with the vertex modeler. These can be shared because morph files can be loaded after creating a new morph. The mesh can be divided into morph areas first. Then morphs are created within that morph area.
Facial expressions 2 - extra bones can be put in the face to aid expressions, although that may complicate weightpainting parts of the neck and jaw.
Poses - Poses and animations can be saved as NLA clips for animation groups.
Clothes - VWD clothes can work great. Attaching clothes to the same skeleton and then weightpainting can work great, but requires redoing the wieghts or saving it as a second version of figure. I have not had much success using 'fit to' with custom figures even when I start with the same mesh. Maybe I'm not doing it well enough
Handheld and other objects (like hair caps) can be parented to a bone in the skeleton.
UVs can be exported from the display tab in the uv area of the vertex modeler.
I've got nothing related to mipmapping, other than to set to sampling if using a texture map in the shader tree.
Posed and clothed
See this thread for more on a custom figure. https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2260301/#Comment_2260301
mipmapping only works in Carrara 8.5 and is default
I suggested avoiding it for compatibility with other Carrara builds.
I also think we can model clothing to fit, and then have it "Follow Skeleton" of the main figure.
A few choices for modeled clothing for custom figures.
- attempt to use the autofit feature - I have not had success even when I start with the same mesh from the figure to make the clothes. Hope I am missing something that others could fix.
- attach the clothes mesh to the same skeleton - much more success but requires weihtpainting when attaching the skeleton so hard to share with others without sharing whole figure group
- edit the mesh of the base figure to incorporate the clothes - now have to start the wieghtmap all over again
- VWD -
- remember the "undersuit" project to use Carrara's softbody physics? I abandoned that when VWD came out, but it is an option even though some serious flaws.
Marinating....
That figure looks awesome btw, we really should be encouraging the creation of carrara characters., now I'm sure of it...
The thought of a rig for facial expressions is scary, I'd much rather use shape morphs. Does that mean every expression would require the object file morphed to be distributed with the character files?
If we had a skeleton, and a mesh attached to or that uses that skeleton, would we be able to utilize saved poses for it? So if we made a universal skeleton, we could essentially make universal poses as well???
What's vmd?!?
It's a cool software with a plugin to have it into Carrara...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOpGh2GKgryXyMlbcTQ45dg
PM sent ;)
I have VWD working now (Yay!) but so far it doesn't seem to like anything I try to use with it - Error: No _____ .obj found, just before it makes the obj in Carrara. I know we're not supposed to use stuff with too high of poly count, no hidden verts, but we're also supposed to be able to use conforming items... so I'm not sure why it doesn't like what I'm giving it.
Granted, I haven't had a lot of time to mess with it.
Sometmes you will get that obj error if the filename of the cloth object is too long. There is a fairly robust forum over at rosity.
Cool. Thanks! :)
Facial expressions - it is not necessary to use the skeleton rig to add bones to the face. Can rely entirely upon morphs. Can create a morph area for the head. Then create morphs in that area. A figure could be created and distributed that has some base morphs to work from. People can then add their own. I've never tried distributing morphs, but there is a load feature in the morph editing dialog. Although I assume that means people can share morphs the way we used to for Victoria 3 and Michael 3, someone more used to creating stuff for distribtion would have to confirm that.
Poses - poses can be saved for animation groups. They are called NLA clips and can be saved to the browser. They are then loaded from the browser to the animation timeline for use. Again, I assume they can be shared with people with the same animation group (mesh and skeleton), but others would have to confirm.
Thanks for the kind words on the custom figure.
so the bit about the nla tab made me check the first set of characters i converted into carrara, and i noticed that they did NOT have the nla tab. the first set of characters i made were modeled and rigged by me, so i "think" they got an nla tab when the mesh is joined to the skeleton. so i made another series of make human characters, and created the animation group for those... thats one thing.
i have to say, im am totally digging converting the makehuman characters into carrara figures, while i always had a version and tinkered with make human, this is breathing new life into it for me. the rigs are done very well i think, and for me, i would have to say that "completes" the search for a non poser/studio figure (i dont lose cool points in that reference =P). i was trying to get my hands on creature creator or quidam, but as those are not available am satisfied with using make human. for me the goal isnt to reproduce another human figure, i want to rig custom characters, chances are humans wont be in my to-do list, lol, but i still need to learn to joint in carrara...
so in using the makehuman characters i noticed a few "things"... (the characters im talking about are available in my rr freestuff, link in my banner)
when you hit the wrench to edit in the assembly room, the model "flips and rotates" one way. if you actually go into the model room, it flips/rotates a diff direction. why is that? also, it translates diff when youre in the model or animation mode. i tried making a texture for the eyes.... i cant begin to explain the weirdness there, you have to see for yourself.... in 3dcoat i tried importing the .fbx file to paint textures with. it imports "ok" except that there seems to be something wrong with the normals. anyone know how to fix that?!?
so i "investigated" making/saving poses. seems like the pose file gets saved into the character, so after poses are made, the figure needs to be resaved. unless i am doing something wrong, i didnt see anything get added to the browser =/ seems like you load the pose from the character itself, i kind of like that better. i suppose the best way would be to embed a $h!tload of poses into the character and save.
for facial morphs (as shape morphs, not rigged), i tried going to the model room or editing in the assembly room, and it doesnt allow me to create morphs, more likely i am doing something wrong, so if someone could elaboate on the process, that would be greatly appreciated.
so far i am enjoying this "new" aspect of carrara and combined use of makehuman. the base object/figure really needs to be reworked for better uv/materials, other than that, i have no complaints on it just yet.
Mod edit :- images removed. Need either clothes on nether regions or clay render, rather than skin
i REALLY want to edit the uv's... how would i do that for an .fbx file and keep the reference to the joint system in place?
none of the programs i own allowed me to edit the .fbx uvs, and i dont know how to in carrara. 3dcoat can import the .fbx, but only to paint, skeleton is lost on export.
so i had them both loaded, made and saved a few poses for the male, and when i went to do the same to the female, they were already loaded/embedded in her character, both characters were in the scene when i made the poses for the male.
i like them but the mapping is killing my anal retentive tendencies, lol. the female doesnt look feminine enuff, and looks kinda nasty posed.
i thought nudity refered to exposed genetalia, or "toast and jellies"... oh well =P
the zip is the textures with underwear btw
you can in Ultimate Unwrap 3D
UV swap is something sorely missing in Carrara, interestingly most my other softwares do it including DAZ studio
I actually alter UV's in Carrara then load the obj in surfaces for DAZ studio
FBX I use UUW3D or iClone 3Dxchange that also does it but you could also use Blender if wanting a free way
and if you can line it up to a daz figure close enough you can use repaint in UUW3D to transfer texture maps, or your alternate UV 3Dcoat figure even, 3Dcoat should also do this I imagine if the mesh matches even if UV different
that ultimate unwrap looks pretty cool, and the price isnt bad at all, but ill be damned as i have 3dcoat and zbrush, shouldnt have to buy another tool just to edit an fbx uvs... tempting tho, i really like this make human bit, lol
i posted in the 3dcoat site, maybe theyll have a way.
a small downside ive noticed, or my inexperience and lack of knowledge kicking in... the nla clips saved ONLY save to the scene file. they dont save with the new prop save, and they dont save thru the "save component" option of the nla tab. So can someone explain how to save nla clips for pose presets?
Blender then
is free
I am slowly learning to do more in it myself