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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
Salt Lake City, UT 84101
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© 2024 Daz Productions Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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I would feel remiss if I didn't put up Garstor's unwrapping of MakeHuman using UV Layout - which causes an even larger shell-out
Here's part 1
I thought you were looking for a marketable figure that was a Carrara Character sort of thing. Personally, I wouldn't consider MakeHuman that... but more of an alternative.
just feel that if it is going to try to be marketable, it will need to be somehow better and/or unique. As cool as MakeHuman is - especially being free, it can't really hold a candle to other already inexpensive popular options. Could be just my opinion, but Generation 1 Daz figures and G6 Poser figures seem to me to have been already at or beyond this state years ago.
To bring something new out - especially if the intent is to turn heads or at the very least, get some kind of a following, I think it's going to need some sort of Wow factor.
An example would be Sixus 1, who competes using entirely original figure ideas. Cool stuff that fills a missing niche. I think Sixus1 was also part of at least the early development of the MakeHuman project, if I'm not mistaken.
MakeHuman is cool... I do agree. But it's an entirely different angle than what I though you were after.
Not a criticism, just a comment, is all - part of the conversation.
Dart - I have been thinking along similar lines. Making a new figure is a massive undertaking to get something which is generally usable and useful, so it has to offer something that existing figures don't. And that is a big ask as Daz's existing figure range is already very advanced. I think the best way forward would be think of something unique and different - easy to say, hard to do.
the goal is custom characters, but to reach that goal, will take small steps... while i/we learn thru reworking the makehuman figure, i will then be prepared to create from scratch, but as stated before, we need to develop a standard. as the actual modeling/model isnt the topic, throwing in a figure, or the makehuman character works well... how do we adjust a rig (because weve all stated how "easy" the creation part is), how do we manage morphs, how we handle poses, clothes and smartprops, all these factors go into the process. if i were to model a "wow" factor mesh, we would be going thru the very same process, all knowledge gained here transfers. even further, its better to have an understanding of this process beforehand, as i am sure a lot of things discussed here get incorporated into the design of the actual "wow" model.
would this example/thread be better suited if i used my space auger character?!? hes in my freestuff too, but i think the makehuman characters give a better, more universal reference for us to use...
we have to be patient for the wow factor.
posted at the 3d coat forums regarding the .fbx export option for rigging, and doesnt seem like that option will work =( also, i note a few other things... one is that the figures do not get a "parameters" tab. i even checked with my custom figures agaisnt the makehuman ones. is that exclusive to the "other" programs? creating morphs, took a bit to figure out, it is not done in a way that ive been used to doing it for figures from the "other" programs. but what we do learn is that it is crucial that the mesh be mapped prior to rigging, and must be modeled in its default/zero size and position, these two things can not be changed afterward, not without re-rigging the figure. if the end user wants to remap the mesh, they risk losing the rigging, and having the mesh at zero makes it easier to create morphs from a default position. i dont see a way to use external geometry to make morphs... its like you have to do it from within the model room, on the fly. if anyone knows a way, please tell...
iClone 3Dexchange
(and Carrara as the mesh morpher on an exported obj)
not the answer you want but how I do it with FBX figures
MakeHuman figures are fully compatible with Blender. There are also BlenderTools tto import MakeHuman models in Blender or to create new MakeHuman assets with Blender. Blender has very powerful and handy UV editing tools.
I have this option replacing mesh in iClone 3Dxchange
it worked on Makehuman, I think because the mesh is one shading domain, DAZ figures you need to do each damned body part!!!
iClone figure I tried it messed up as multiple domains one vertex group
tried to show it in a video but my microphone failed and I replaced it with the wrong mesh initially
i dont think the direction would be humans that need poses and clothes... starting to think my model for the group conversation to use as a universal reference is misleading, lol... i just wanted to use something that everyone could use and relate to. the info learned is whats important, would translate to ANY kind of figure im hoping... but this whole .fbx thing is turning out to be a most welcomed distraction...
Right, but the idea behind the idea doesn't really seem to be defined - so it's easy for us to accidentally jump off track by not understanding what this "Standard" is that you're talking about.
The best guess I've had so far, but kind of got lost again through several other comments, is that we need a Standard for finalizing the weight painting process. I did link to a conversation about it, but the thing is, this is a very tedious process - simple concept.
We paint the strength of influence on and off of parts of the mesh on a per-bone (of the rig's skeleton - after being merged with the mesh) basis in an attempt to correct for all allowed joint rotation - so setting constraints plays a big factor in this too.
Figures are (arguably) the most difficult at first. But here inlies the big reason for Fenric's ERC for Carrara plugin, we don't have a native JCM (Joint Controlled Morph) system in Carrara. So we'd need to require ERC for Carrara in order to offer its use to others - yet another added expense (that I was happy to pay back when it firast came out).
I say that because weight painting alone has never seemed to resolve issues for bending elbows, for example. It's common to require a morph to kick in during specific joint rotations.
Alternatively, ERC and Non-ERC versions could be created, where Non-ERC users would have to either set the morphs that simulate a JCM manually, or use a specially configured NLA clip set up ahead of time - which is also very doable in Carrara. The clips would be very tiny on the hard drive and the delivery.
So we'd have an "Arm Bend 90 R" clip that would bend the right arm to 90 degrees and apply any needed correction morphs.
The user would then have the option of either adding the clip to the timeline or simply "Add Data from Clip"
So in that regard, we could even skip the ERC version and just make note to users that ERC could greatly enhance their workflow. The caveat being that it would require a lot of extra work on behalf of the end user.
Yeah... it would be nice if someone on such a team would be nice enough to set up any necessary ERC modifiers to make the figure work smoothly out-of-the-box for those whom own ERC (Enhanced Remote Control) for Carrara.
For a Carrara Character, we'd also want it to come already grouped into an Animation Group, so that it has NLA access.
There is also a really nice IK Setup example that comes with Carrara under Scenes > Animation. It's a little character rigged in Carrara with IK Target Helpers all set up to it, which is very similar to how professional 3d animation is achieved - so that might also be a great thing to set up as part of the Standard?
You're so right Dart, and I've been playing with that character for a while now. I also have an old Polyloop forum post detailing the rigging and controler or manipulator setup. I could zip it up and share it here if I am allowed, and if anyone is interested.
Omnifreaker released a lo res custom figure in the Daz store.
https://www.daz3d.com/incantoo-warrior
Yeah, Incantoo Warrior and those darned Skeletons are really cool.
Custom Poser figures are hit-and-miss depending, I think, on how they're set up. I just got one of Sixus1's older creatures (not that old though) and the Mouth Open morph doesn't work in Carrara unless I unlock the figure to access the model-level locked and hidden morphs that the dial in the head controls.
Trying to work around this using Hexagon Bridge with DS to create new user-facing morph dials, but so far to no avail. I'll get it though. Cool creature, nonetheless ;)
um... diomede AND dartanbeck.
-10 points each =P
Sixus stuff is way cool. But the "problem" is that that figure was made for Poser (no loss of points =P), and if "someone" made a character for Carrara, that would set the path... Trying to gather all the input and such for that initial charcater, thats what were doing >> here << for instance you mention erc for natual bends that occur at elbows.......... Carrara doesnt have such a system? a proper workaround, that can be used universally by anyone, is best, expecting people to know, use and have additional plugins may be too much. Easy and native if possible...
it would be a problem if we couldnt get carrara to pull off a natural elbow bend i imagine... thats a HUGE thing i find the more i play with the make human rigs... so its not about "how" they are rigged, even further, how well they are rigged...
we need a standard method to resolve this =P
there is a way around this in DAZ studio that will enable it to work in Carrara
do not have that figure but I have made AM's critters useable in Carrara by resaving morphs another way
trouble is DIM updates overwrite the buggers so you have to save it as a new figure too
It's not a DIM product, so I'm safe. Besides... I saved it as !dB_Dakari (orig: !_Dakari) so I'm double safe! So please share!!!
...and even more?
Faba made a really cool Carrara male figure. Looked like a great companion to Aiko. He was modeled in Hexagon and rigged in Carrara. I cannot find it on Vimeo though. She had him walking up and down stairs, running... he was pretty cool.
Which is one of the problems with an entirely Carrara person. Not a big deal for some, huge deal for others. But I agree... would be better if no plugins were required.
The problem I'm having with that Sixus figure (yup, lose another 10!) is that it has a morph dial in the head that isn't actually a Morph, but an ERC control dial, which tells the several morphs involved to operate correctly, and at what part of the dial to operate at. Since Carrara doesn't support that, it just doesn't work.
For Carrara to do this, we'd have to just leave the main morphs visible to the user and let them animate their own method of using them - in other words, you control whether the final look is broken or not.
Good we come to this snag before we even begin. i think its "serious" if we were not able to get natural bends from carrara rigged characters. while i like the makehuman figures, thats why i havent been using them, nevermind i dont have access to pose presets (i would make some when i figure out how), but when posed they look rigid and crisp at the meat, lol i dont think smoothing or polycount would help, but that alone is a "stopper" =(
out of curiosity, how is "natural joint bending" handled in other programs? max, maya, lightwave, iclone if anyone knows...
for instance, the exact same figure/rig from makehuman can be imported into other programs as well, would they also render out rigid edges at the bends of joints?
nothing special as far as I know, just simply saving as a morph asset
will need to find one that did not work to test
saving it animated with the morphs used as a scene subset from DAZ studio also works
I do this with stuff like the carnival carousel horses and DZfire’s cyborgs
Well... instead of being a "Stopper", we may just need to rethink how we rig the thing. A lot of work.
I really don't know how the big studios do it, but from what I've seen in passing is that it's a quite a bit different than the way Daz and Poser do it - much more like the Carrara example I mentioned earleir. The animation character rig that comes in Carrara's Browser is very similar to what I've seen used in big studios, and then various magnets (tabs or tags they're often called) are added where needed to help shape the mesh during certain situations - especially for facial expressions.
Instead of turning a dial, they grab a tag and pull or push it around to get the right effect on the mesh. So we'd just drop a tag in each elbow, and when we bend the arm, we pull the elbow tag and scale it a bit (whatever) to get the elbow to look right at that angle, etc., etc., etc.,
Often the animation department will have requirements they give to the rigging department as to their needs, but will also make requests for special cases from time to time.
But these are specially made individuals made for a specific movie or show - not something sold to the public.
I'll keep trying.
I already tried using the morph in DS to get all of the other morphs to initiate properly - and did that for several of the ones that don't work in Carrara, and then saved it as a new CR2. Still no luck in Carrara.
As far as I know, most 3D programs work in more or less the same way with regard to animation. That is you model a figure, apply a skeleton / bones to articulate the major movements, fine tune the influence of the bones with weight maps. So that sorts the broad movements. In order to fine tune the look, you can then apply Joint Controlled Morphs, so basically a morph which responds to the angle that a joint is set at. You could for example have a morph which flexes the biceps when the albow is bent, or a morph which makes the elbow joint look better when bent. You could of course just have a set of morphs and rely on the user to set the correct morphs each time, but if you automate the process, it makes it easier for the animator to focus on the actual performance. That automation is something that Carrara cannot do natively, but it does have the ERC plugin which allows you to set up such relationships.
Facial movement used to done solely with morphs, so for each expression or facial movement, you would define a specific morph for that, and then combine those for the final result. A more recent trend has been to use bones to control areas of the face, something which Daz introduced with Genesis 3 I think it was. So I think that Daz are aware of and seek to incoporate the latest thinking in the 3D world into their figures.
Rather than using dials to control everything, it is quite common to have some sort of rig either on the figure itself or as a separate panel, which let's you move control points in order to animate the figure or the face.
Am I the only one that makes his own figures? :|
No.
Hey , Interesting conversation. I make my own characters in Carrara also so you are not alone. . I have thought of making a character to sell that is for use in just Carrara but I don't think it would be economically feasible and would never compete against the Daz figures.