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... took awhile to get the hull shape (and I'm still not happy with the keel section, but gave up there X)... then realised that 100% accuracy probably isn't necessary, 98% would be good enough, given that you'd be rendering it amongst book title, author's name, backdrop, etc ;-).
Plus I didn't want to prematurely post without being sure I could finish it <(^_^).</p>
Further questions:
. what's the hull supposed to be made of? the model looks like plastic (or perhaps formed metal), ie without the "clinker" look of wooden beams;
. is there a "spine" that runs along the centreline of the hull from prow to stern? (would make merging that keel into the hull a lot easier X), or is the whole hull some super-lightweight material?
. where is cargo supposed to be stored? the winch seems to be able to swing only around onto the stern of the deck - does that imply all cargo is stored on-deck? (the little white hatch just above the winch is listed as "entrance to motor room"...);
. how many decks does the ship have? I'm guessing judging by the height of the door on-deck, and the location of the portholes, that there is only one level below-deck? (and possibly a half-height "ballast" section or something, under their feet);
. what shape is the balloon? ... "ropes run from five mount points to a 10' ring above pilot house..." then what? is it a 'zeppelin'-shaped balloon (cigar-shaped)? or a spherical balloon? do the ropes run around the balloon in 5 rings, making something that looks like 1971s airship (RMP)?
. is the engine mounting supposed to pivot, or are the engines fixed? (the little silver spherical thing on the "3quarter" shot - is that supposed to be some form of winch that turns the whole mounting?).
. where's the fuel lines / transmission rods / motive power sources for the engines? there's mention of a large ("not shown") exhaust stack that comes out over the starboard motor... which presumably implies some combustion happening below-decks, feeding... what?... a big gearshift? (in which case, why would the external motors need all those what-look-like cooling fins (in RL I think they were engine blocks, but I'm not an aviation buff...), if the external housing is just a gear assembly and not the main engine motor);
. (just as an aside) it would have made modelling a lot easier if the model had been shot against a white (or plain coloured) sheet, at proper orthogonal "top-down", "side-on", "front" and "rear" views (rather than the angled views that are there <(^_^));</p>
. Aidana, are you going to be rendering this close enough to be able to see inside the pilot-house windows? do we need anything inside the pilot house visible through the windows? X). Also, if you think you can kitbash the deck features, I'm happy to send the hull model over to you as it is;
. the views don't show the front of the pilot house... are there three windows there, like a tugboat?
. what's the clearance between the top of the winch and the bottom of the balloon? ... "10' above the pilot house" to the ring, and then some unspecified amount above it presumably is the balloon, but I'm guesstimating that winch crane must be nearly tall enough to scrape the bottom of the balloon, if we're not careful X).
. I'll whip up some quicky balloon samples so we can have something more concrete to talk about... hang on.
Yeah! :D
I will forward these questions to the author :D
... took awhile to get the hull shape (and I'm still not happy with the keel section, but gave up there X)... then realised that 100% accuracy probably isn't necessary, 98% would be good enough, given that you'd be rendering it amongst book title, author's name, backdrop, etc ;-).
Plus I didn't want to prematurely post without being sure I could finish it <(^_^).</p>
Further questions:
. what's the hull supposed to be made of? the model looks like plastic (or perhaps formed metal), ie without the "clinker" look of wooden beams;
. is there a "spine" that runs along the centreline of the hull from prow to stern? (would make merging that keel into the hull a lot easier X), or is the whole hull some super-lightweight material?
. where is cargo supposed to be stored? the winch seems to be able to swing only around onto the stern of the deck - does that imply all cargo is stored on-deck? (the little white hatch just above the winch is listed as "entrance to motor room"...);
. how many decks does the ship have? I'm guessing judging by the height of the door on-deck, and the location of the portholes, that there is only one level below-deck? (and possibly a half-height "ballast" section or something, under their feet);
.
(note, there have been a few extra questions added to my post at the top of the page Aidana, outside your quote...).
Here's some quick "mockups" about the balloon shape - which is right? ... or should it be "cylindrical" but tapered more (like a "()" shape...).
. also, is there some sort of rigging allowing crew members to climb up there? (mend holes)
. are there gas-lines running up from deck to balloon? ... a normal 'hot air balloon' would have a heater under it, to help keep the air warm - what exactly is in this one? hot air? gas? does it need topping up now and then, if so, how?
. rigging somewhere for flying a flag? even a hand-drawn sketch on the back of a restaurant napkin would help...
. how do they perform maintenance on the ship - can it actually touch down in water? (submerging the engines...). Does it rely on a special "cradle" to land on, so that the crew can hop down and repair the engine assemblies? (ie the hull isn't actually floatable...). Do they have to do everything hanging over the edge of the deck in a harness? X)
. how does the ship steer? ... there don't appear to be any control surfaces, other than possibly pointing the engines at different angles (ie no fins or vanes or 'rudder' equivalent...). Going up/down presumably involves reducing the amount of gas in the balloon... which in turn presumably means there's either a hot air generator below decks (need another pipe feeding the bag then), or some way to 'freeze' the balloon gas into an inert form which no longer generates as much lift, and then put it away for storage... or, of course, "magic" ;-)
. is there no other hatch on the "cabin" section behind the water tank? ... so to exit from below-decks, you either need to come out the hatch at the prow (in front of the pilot house, not shown), or to (presumably) climb into the pilot house and exit from there, or to come out the rear "motor room" hatch?
... I think I'm questioned out, for now ;-).
I'll add the remaining questions and images to my email.
Thanks :D
Reply from the author:
I'm at work, and can't download the pix here, but I can answer some questions.
100% accuracy is definitely not needed. It was never my intention to show readers exactly what to think, just hint, suggest, seduce.
The model itself is made of plastic. My visualization is that there are no modern materials, it being 1882, and nailed wood would tend to start falling apart under the strains of gravity (as opposed to sitting in water), so it is likely a sheet metal hull. I was happy with the shape of the model, but have never addressed the detail of a keel (spine), and don't at this time intend to. If it makes it easier for you to work, by all means include one, and I'll consider that it has one if the issue comes up.
They carry their cargo on the rear, flat portion of the deck. They don't need a big hold, as an airship can't carry that much in any case. Below decks, there is in fact, a single deck. The little mess deck skylight is raised, and coal is stored under. Forward of that are the crew's quarters, with a head (toilet) and small gear locker across from each other at the bow. Behind the mess deck is the motor room. There is a small boiler that makes steam to turn a generator, and most of the equipment runs off of electricity. On the right side, the visible side the way I have displayed it, is that smokestack, and opposite is the condenser which returns the steam to water to be reboiled. I'll get into this in detail if it turns out you need it, but it is basically a radiator to carry heat away from the steam.
I will be home in 4-5 hours, and can look at the pictures there. Also, it is a simple matter to reshoot the model the way you have requested it, so I'll get that done as well.
The gasbag is shaped like a football, points fore-and-aft. The hull is about 70' long, to get the scale for that ring. Above the ring, they would most likely spread out and attach to a net-like structure that contains the balloon itself. Small fins similar to the Goodyear (attachment) with no control surfaces, only for stability. The lower ends of the ropes are spliced onto those brackets and do not continue around the hull.
The large "outer" portion of the motor brackets is fixed with a smaller inner frame pivoting the motors around to control direction and climb. The little round thing is left over from the model, which was of a tugboat before I started messing with it. It could be part of a control mechanism, or it doesn't even have to be there. The "fuel" lines are electrical cables feeding electric motors. The visible "fins" in the picture are the cylinder heads of radial engines. Visualize them as the wrapped cable of large electric motors (attachment), and you'll have it.
The height from deck to balloon would be kept to a minimum for reasons of stability, but it has to allow for the ring, so there would be some pretty decent space in there, possibly as much as 50'. The purpose of the ring is to close the ropes almost completely around the balloon to keep it "contained," even when going through less-than-nice weather.
Does this help?
The pictured ship design that the model is of is a Tugboat (look on google images for many images that look quite like the physical model). Whether the author intended to "use" it as such is a different subject. There are actually several closely related models on Turbosquid.
Kendall
Yep, muchly - thanks ^_^. I'll carry on adding extra deckstuff, posting updates as often as I can (so if I'm going off in the wrong direction, it can be spotted early and fixed).
Any thoughts how you're going to render this? ... I'm guessing it'll be for just a single cover? (as opposed to a bunch of detailed fan-page shots from various angles...).
Yep, muchly - thanks ^_^. I'll carry on adding extra deckstuff, posting updates as often as I can (so if I'm going off in the wrong direction, it can be spotted early and fixed).
Any thoughts how you're going to render this? ... I'm guessing it'll be for just a single cover? (as opposed to a bunch of detailed fan-page shots from various angles...).
This is the primary ship in this particular book series. It's going on the cover of book two, which is a collection of short stories about the world he has built. So it's highly possible, although I only need one POV for this book, that I may need the full model for later use, either promotional or a future cover in the series. I'm still uncertain how close it will be to the 'viewer' or how much will be seen, lol. I won't know until I am done playing with it.
Jack sent me some more picks and notes:
"I'm attaching top, side, front, and rear as requested; also front and sides with Bonnie holding the football. Small stabilizing fins on that will complete the picture. The gasbag probably started off white, to minimize effects of the tropical sun. It would be gray by now, and a bit grubby. If this was a small personal item, Patience would probably have painted a sunburst on it or something, but this isn't the sort of crew that is going to paint a hundred foot gasbag. Just grubby will do fine."
I forgot two pics :D ...
Thanks for the pics Aidana (^_^)n... I'll get to work on the various fittings.
By the way - the "football" proportions and "fins"... I was looking at the Goodyear Blimp (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodyear_Blimp ) - to stick fins on a football, they'd have to be quite large to "see around the bulge" of the ball (or if small, they'd be angled out so far because of the curvature at the "end" of the football). I wonder if something a bit slimmer (see attached) might be okay for the balloon + fins?
Otherwise, I can do a "football" proportion balloon if that really is what the author has in mind.
On the winch crane arm - looking at the top-down view, when the winch arm swings outward it really should be long enough to at least clear the railing of the deck (and go a bit further), shouldn't it? ... the model arm looks a bit too short at the moment - no way could it reach over for putting down cargo at the far-side of the deck from the gap of the railing. I guess the deckhands could "swing" cargo a little way... but using the port deck area, and extreme stern deck area seems like a lot of effort at the moment. Also, would there not be some sort of netting or extra height railing around the stern area, to help keep boxes etc onboard during turbulence? ... or do they only carry a very small "flat" amount of cargo, no higher than the existing rails? (presumably with tarpaulins thrown over, or cargo nets to lash it all down).
I think for this second question, I'll ask him, lol.
In your post #516 above,
I like it :D Maybe the fins a bit narrower, to cut the air a little better?
Half the thickness?
Perfect :D
Would the tips be slightly, very slightly, rounded? So as not to create a weak spot? Or no?
"tips"... of the balloon? yes - I plan to do that in Blender before sending it through to DS.
Of the fins? I initially tried to do that, but then realised that if you're rendering the balloon as well as the ship - there'd be barely a pixel or two of difference, and it increases the complexity of the mesh for no real visible gain (imho).
This is ~6000 faces by the way:
EDIT: (and a real quick render in DS - importing the balloon as it is without any fiddling, and applying a sub-d modifier and a linen shader).
Looking awesome!
Yeah, I meant the balloon. I think the fins look better the way they are. Support the roundness of the balloon well.
Just saw this thread today... The airship looks mighty temping and it looks like M F M has its construction well in hand. ;-)
I don't want to step on any toes or cause any problems, but was wondering if I gave modeling the airship a try would I indeed be stepping on toes and causing problems? Normally I wouldn't do this and I certainly don't want to interfere with what M F M has done already. I look at the airship Kestrel, though, and immediately have a vision of what the finished craft should look like within the guidelines provided... which is very tempting to start modeling. I won't be offended in the least if you (AidanaWillowRaven) or M F M tell me to stay out of it, though... or I could share ideas if you like.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for the airship M F M.
Best of luck and success with the project!
Since this entire world is traversed by airships, and, it makes sense there would be several models with similar specs, much like our cars are. If MFM doesn't mind, I don't. MFMs version is for the cover for book two, but as I mentioned at one point, this is a series of short stories, batched into novel sized collections, so there will be plenty of opportunity to have your work seen on one of my covers, lol.
What ya think, MFM?
Hey, no problems 7thStone ^_^... come join the modelling party. I'm just doing this for practice and to see if I can meet the challenge. Aidana always likes having extra options.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with, and perhaps learning some new techniques or principles (^_^).
It's officially a PARTY! :coolsmile:
OK... I'll work on the ideas I have.
I'm doing this with the full understanding that there is no obligation to use anything I come up with nor will there be any form of compensation for the work unless there is a decision to use it at some later date. Since M F M got the jump on this project first it will his work alone that will appear on the book cover, and for which M F M alone will receive any agreed to compensation (unless for some reason the two of you decide otherwise at a later date). I'm in this simply for the fun and challenge at this point... and for the love of airships. Therefore I'm not promising anything other then to share ideas with the understanding that I retain the rights to any models I complete, unless I state otherwise, so long as they don't conflict with the author's copyrights. Not trying to be fussy... I just want to avoid any possible confusion later on. Hope this sounds reasonable?
Understood :D
The author holds no copyright to the art I create or models ya'll make. I never sell my right to my work, and I don't expect to own ya'lls work. The models belong to ya'll. Just let me know if I can't use them in commercial renders, is all I ask, so I don't download it and save it, then forget I can't use it for another book or cover, lol.
I work on several commissions at once and easily forget what is what. So I play it safe. If you want to keep your model just for practice and not give it me for my runtime, I won't be upset or offended in the least. Have fun with it.
I personally think modelers are a special kind of OCD crazy, lol. Ya'll rock :D
Lining up guy ropes... yeah this is fun >_<. A friend of a friend pointed out that the phrase probably should be "OCO" - no true OC would allow Disorder around them ;-).</p>
(by the way, I should add that the balloon has been scaled to 70 units long, and the ring below it is exactly 10 units diameter... so the proportions are as numerically called for ^_^ -- the guy rope positioning has been just "by eye" though, on the assumption they'll fan out again to reach the fastening points around the hull. There must be a huuuge amount of stress on that ring, to be able to stop the ropes from "springing outward" to match the 'straight line' from hull fastening to balloon surface tangent.......).
EDIT: well that came out nicely (DS render added below - ~14k verts in the scene... with the SubD pushes it up to ~38k verts). Looks like sweeping a square up the rope lines should suffice for adding a touch of "3D-ness" to the ropes (plus allowing them to be exported X).
How exciting :D I am so glad you guys have fun doing this :D I can't wait to play with it in my scene :D
QUESTION: I had a feeling that the 10 foot diameter dimension on the rigging ring between the balloon and the ship's hull was going to be a problem. I also figured that the 70 foot length dimension given for the "hull" referred to the length of the ship's hull and not the length of the balloon. If one estimates the doors on the ship to be no taller then 5 feet then the length of the ship model shown is 100 feet long, which hints that I'm probably correct in assuming that the ship hull is supposed to be 70 feet long and the balloon even longer. This means that the rigging ring actually looks even smaller then what M F M has shown above. Hmmm... How sure are we actually about these dimensions? Is it possible to fudge or actually change these dimensions without contradicting what has been written?
Edit: I bring this up because the smaller the rigging ring is the less stable and believable looking the rigging will be visually. It will tend to look as if the balloon and ship could easily twist separately in a small gust of wind rather then maintaining the proper parallel alignment that should exist between them at all times (length of the ship hull parallel to the length of the balloon).
If for physical reasons, the dimensions are not possible, I'll let the author know hat had to be done vs what he has described. I know the book is being edited right now, so he may be able to revise to suit, but it is the second book, so I don't know if the dimensions were already published in books one or not.
But, for my needs, do what works. I highly doubt the average reader, looking at my cover art, will know the dimensions shown are not the dimensions in the book. I'd never know, lol.
Would it be good or bad to have the ring closer to the balloon? If there was a storm, would these ropes be tight enough to keep the balloon from slipping from those ropes?