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[Released] RSSY Hair Converter from Genesis 8 to Genesis 9 [Commercial]

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  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382

    Artini said:

    Agree, much appreciated for all of the updates, RiverSoft Art.

    You're welcome @Artini!  Thank you for all support.

  • memcneil70memcneil70 Posts: 3,802

    I made a point to buy two of your billboard bundles that I had on my wishlist for a long time because you had no chance to release a new product this month. Only way I could help you out at this time. I hope others can pitch in as well. Your dedication to our satisfaction with your products has me continuing buying them.

  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382

    memcneil70 said:

    I made a point to buy two of your billboard bundles that I had on my wishlist for a long time because you had no chance to release a new product this month. Only way I could help you out at this time. I hope others can pitch in as well. Your dedication to our satisfaction with your products has me continuing buying them.

    Wow, that is so nice.  You did not have to do that, but thank you very much! smiley

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    Given how they typically release your updates soon after you submit them, this wait tells me even the Daz people are having issues.

    Gotta say, Gen 9 REALLY is going to be tough to master.

  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382

    Eboshijaana said:

    Given how they typically release your updates soon after you submit them, this wait tells me even the Daz people are having issues.

    Gotta say, Gen 9 REALLY is going to be tough to master.

    I think they just have a lot of submissions to test.

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447
    edited April 13

    So the update rolled around and I tested it. Sadly it seems it works worse than before.

    This is Greyson hair converted with no previous files for it in any folder and after I had reinstalled the hairconverter manually. I cleared AppData too, yet the results are the same.

    HOWEVER, when I parent the hair directly to Genesis 9, the hair looks fine. And does so after saving and loading.



    Here is the Log;

     

     

    10:34:02 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika): Executing Script
    10:34:02 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika): Selecting Preset: dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf
    10:34:02 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika): Converting Greyson Hair Hair, from X: dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf to dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf
    10:34:05 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika): WARNING: Preset loaded multiple objects in Greyson Hair.duf
    10:34:05 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika):      Greyson Hair Base Genesis 8 Male is of type Follower/Hair
    10:34:08 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika):      Directory does not exist: /dForce Greyson Hair
    10:34:21 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika):      Copy Icons from dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf to D/dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf
    10:34:21 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika):      Copy Categories from dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf to /dForce Greyson Hair/Greyson Hair.duf
    10:34:22 GMT+0300 (Suomen kesäaika): Execution Complete.

    File locations were removed for privacy.

    hairconversiontestapril.png
    388 x 297 - 45K
    Post edited by Eboshijaana on
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    Upon further testing, it seems all dForce hairs with a haircap are similar.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288
    That's terribly disappointing news.
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    barbult said:

    That's terribly disappointing news.

    What it SEEMS to be doing is the same thing that straight-up applying G8 hair to G9, saving and then loading does.

  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382

    Eboshijaana said:

    barbult said:

    That's terribly disappointing news.

    What it SEEMS to be doing is the same thing that straight-up applying G8 hair to G9, saving and then loading does.

    The script converts the hair cap and the dForce part differently.  The hair cap goes through a much longer process (transfer, adjust scene id, adjust rigging, etc).  The dForce part gets the transfer, adjust scene id, parented to the new head of the hair cap, etc) 

    Did you look at the manual?  It says:

    Some hair is too low and inside the head. For some hair, they can load too low, rotated and inside the head. Occasionally, selecting the hair and changing the Fit To Mode from Redirect Transforms to Auto Follow Transforms can fix this issue. If it is only slightly too low, changing the Smoothing Iterations and Collision Iterations can fix this issue. Also, remember to start a new scene before trying to use your converted hair. 

    Unfortunately, sometimes Fit To Mode set to one way works and sometimes not, and seems almost random.  The script chooses one way.

    Also, there is a warning now:

    WARNING: Do not attempt to use the converted hair until you have cleared the scene. The conversion process leaves old, cached files around that can mess up the appearance of the hair until you load a new scene. 
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    RiverSoft Art said:

    Eboshijaana said:

    barbult said:

    That's terribly disappointing news.

    What it SEEMS to be doing is the same thing that straight-up applying G8 hair to G9, saving and then loading does.

    The script converts the hair cap and the dForce part differently.  The hair cap goes through a much longer process (transfer, adjust scene id, adjust rigging, etc).  The dForce part gets the transfer, adjust scene id, parented to the new head of the hair cap, etc) 

    Did you look at the manual?  It says:

    Some hair is too low and inside the head. For some hair, they can load too low, rotated and inside the head. Occasionally, selecting the hair and changing the Fit To Mode from Redirect Transforms to Auto Follow Transforms can fix this issue. If it is only slightly too low, changing the Smoothing Iterations and Collision Iterations can fix this issue. Also, remember to start a new scene before trying to use your converted hair. 

    Unfortunately, sometimes Fit To Mode set to one way works and sometimes not, and seems almost random.  The script chooses one way.

    Also, there is a warning now:

    WARNING: Do not attempt to use the converted hair until you have cleared the scene. The conversion process leaves old, cached files around that can mess up the appearance of the hair until you load a new scene. 

    This hair has previously never given me trouble when converting.

    I converted the hair, closed daz studio,  restarted it and loaded G9 and then Greyson hair on them. It looked as the above picture shows. Then I changed the fit to mode as the manual instructed and there was no change to its state.

     

    I tested the stated method on other previously converted dForce hairs and none of them were fixed by changing the Fit To Mode to Autofollow. The Hairs I tested were;

    Bristol Hair

    Chaos Hair

    Volta Hair

    Greyson Hair

  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382

    Eboshijaana said:

    RiverSoft Art said:

    Eboshijaana said:

    barbult said:

    That's terribly disappointing news.

    What it SEEMS to be doing is the same thing that straight-up applying G8 hair to G9, saving and then loading does.

    The script converts the hair cap and the dForce part differently.  The hair cap goes through a much longer process (transfer, adjust scene id, adjust rigging, etc).  The dForce part gets the transfer, adjust scene id, parented to the new head of the hair cap, etc) 

    Did you look at the manual?  It says:

    Some hair is too low and inside the head. For some hair, they can load too low, rotated and inside the head. Occasionally, selecting the hair and changing the Fit To Mode from Redirect Transforms to Auto Follow Transforms can fix this issue. If it is only slightly too low, changing the Smoothing Iterations and Collision Iterations can fix this issue. Also, remember to start a new scene before trying to use your converted hair. 

    Unfortunately, sometimes Fit To Mode set to one way works and sometimes not, and seems almost random.  The script chooses one way.

    Also, there is a warning now:

    WARNING: Do not attempt to use the converted hair until you have cleared the scene. The conversion process leaves old, cached files around that can mess up the appearance of the hair until you load a new scene. 

    This hair has previously never given me trouble when converting.

    I converted the hair, closed daz studio,  restarted it and loaded G9 and then Greyson hair on them. It looked as the above picture shows. Then I changed the fit to mode as the manual instructed and there was no change to its state.

     

    I tested the stated method on other previously converted dForce hairs and none of them were fixed by changing the Fit To Mode to Autofollow. The Hairs I tested were;

    Bristol Hair

    Chaos Hair

    Volta Hair

    Greyson Hair

    I am pretty sure that Volta and Greyson converted well on my system.  I am doing taxes this weekend, but I can try and check on Tuesday.

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    That is why I am so baffled, Greyson has never failed to convert and Volta was fine after one update. Now they act like I had straight up fit them from the g8 product.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288

    I have Volta Hair. I am using DS 4.22.1.123 Public Build. I tried the conversion from G8M to G9. It is a mess. When I closed DS and reopened it, added G9B to the scene and applied Volta Hair (G9), it didn't fit. You can see in the screenshot with the hair base hidden or the one with PR Hair Preview, that the dForce hair does not fit the G9B head at all.The added bones were added to the hair base, not the dForce hair. Is that how it is supposed to be? How does that help pose the hair? The original bones in the dForce hair are still there, though, unexpectedly. Changing Fit To Mode from Redirect to Auto Follow did not make any visible change.

    Who tests these updates? Are we users just unlucky to pick hairs that don't work? RiverSoft Art said Volta worked for him, though. I don't own Greyson Hair, so I can't try that one.

    Screenshot 2024-04-13 184534 Volta hair converted G8M to G9.jpg
    1798 x 1255 - 342K
    Screenshot 2024-04-13 184646 Volta G9 conversion hair cap hidden.jpg
    2019 x 1194 - 357K
    Screenshot 2024-04-13 185746 Volta G9 Conversion PR Hair Preview.jpg
    1920 x 1186 - 230K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288

    So I tried a plain non-dForce hair, Librarian Hair for Genesis 8 Female. When it finished and I closed DS, repoened DS, loaded G9 and loaded the hair on G9, the hair looked like a beard. This just doesn't work.

     

    Screenshot 2024-04-13 222724 Librarian hair after conversion to G9.jpg
    1527 x 1251 - 182K
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    I uninstalled every converter from RSSY and emptied the Riversoft folder in data. Then I converted two hairs, Greyson and Dolb. Greyson behaved as demonstrated above, Dolb....

     

    Moved to the armpit. I used the shorthair option on it.

    dolb armpit hair i think.png
    604 x 447 - 51K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288
    I used autofit on the Librarian Hair, after giving up on the converter. When the short hair conformer turned it into a beard, I'd had enough. Autofit worked perfectly with no hassle. I saved the autofitted version as an asset and I loaded it on Karmen 9 with no problem. Do you think we are doing something wrong with the converter?
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288

    I have Dolb HD for Ollie 8 (with the hair). I'll try it tomorrow.

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447
    edited April 14

    barbult said:

    I used autofit on the Librarian Hair, after giving up on the converter. When the short hair conformer turned it into a beard, I'd had enough. Autofit worked perfectly with no hassle. I saved the autofitted version as an asset and I loaded it on Karmen 9 with no problem. Do you think we are doing something wrong with the converter?

    I think it is a bug of some sort, because previous versions converted most dForce hairs and non-dForce hairs just fine.

    The way the dForce hair fails is exactly like if you used autofit on them, saved and then reloaded the scene. The hair stops reading the scalp uv correctly and instead reads only parts of it.

     

    Then I tested Timothy hair and autofit UTTERLY borks it, but the converter does it fine.

    So, no idea.

    EDIT: Wait,no, Timothy hair behaves well, because its not tied to the UV and uses the root dforcehair system instead.

    Post edited by Eboshijaana on
  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,629
    Hi guys, Riversoft is unavailable right now and asked me to look at the thread. I don't know why the conformers would be doing that, though. Try changing the conform type in Parameters between auto follow transforms and the other one? RA was having that fix these random placement errors sometimes. Bones only going into the dForce base cap is not accidental. Dforce hair itself can't be rigged because it's strands, not literal geometry, and directly rerigging it breaks it (which is why Autofit is sometimes a problem). The workaround I found was to rig the cap and parent the dForce hair to the cap's head node without changing its rigging. This should still work because the dForce strands get their shape and position from the cap.
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    SickleYield said:

    Hi guys, Riversoft is unavailable right now and asked me to look at the thread. I don't know why the conformers would be doing that, though. Try changing the conform type in Parameters between auto follow transforms and the other one? RA was having that fix these random placement errors sometimes. Bones only going into the dForce base cap is not accidental. Dforce hair itself can't be rigged because it's strands, not literal geometry, and directly rerigging it breaks it (which is why Autofit is sometimes a problem). The workaround I found was to rig the cap and parent the dForce hair to the cap's head node without changing its rigging. This should still work because the dForce strands get their shape and position from the cap.

    Fit To Mode parameter change does nothing.

    This is just my theory, but it seems the Dforce hair that have their hair generation mode as Target Surfaces end up remaking the autofit dforce mess. While those that use Root Radius are fine. If you unparent a Target Surfaces dForce hair, it will return to its default state, so the interaction with the cap is the culprint.

    I got NO idea about non-dForce hairs, though. Maxx hair found itself in the arse of G9 XD

  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    So, did tests on all G8 hairs with Root Radius. ALL of them converted with no problem.

    I tested;

    Timothy Hair

    Pit Bull Hair

    Hel Hair

    EXzela Hair

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,629

    I also have no idea on the non-dForce hairs. They worked fine in our testing (and I assume for QA also).

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288
    edited April 14

    SickleYield said:

    I also have no idea on the non-dForce hairs. They worked fine in our testing (and I assume for QA also).

    • Do you own the Hair products we are struggling with, like Librarian Hair? Have you tried those specific products with this converter version?
    • Are you using the DIM package version of all files, and not some development or extra files you have on your system?
    • Are you using a pubically available Daz Studio version, not a private or publishing build that we have no access to?  (I'm using 4.22.1.123 Public Build)
    • If it works for you, can you make a video shows exactly the steps you are taking with some of the hairs that fail for us? Maybe we are misunderstanding the written instructions.

    Thanks for not giving up. You must be sick of this by now. We really really want this to work reliably.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288

    I tried Maxx Hair and Dolb Hair. Maxx Hair worked for me. I accident ly left it on Regular Hair conformer instead of changing to Short Hair conformer. I don't know if that is significant. In past converter versions, Regular Hair was the only conformer that would work correctly for me. For Dolb Hair, I remembered to change to Short Hair conformer, and it ended up inside his chest. I had to reduce G9 opacity to even find the converted Dolb hair.

    In all cases, I closed DS after the conversion and opened DS again and loaded G9 and applied the converted hair. Then I closed and reopened DS and loaded G9 before attempting conversion of a different hair.
     

    Screenshot 2024-04-14 150106 Maxx Hair G9.jpg
    1313 x 1545 - 182K
    Screenshot 2024-04-14 150719 Dolb Hair G9.jpg
    1044 x 1429 - 113K
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288
    edited April 14

    Hey, I just remembered to try Auto Follow Transforms on the misplaced Dolb hair, and it sprang up on to his head where it belongs! This is the first time changing Fit to Mode on a failed converted hair actually made a difference for me!

    But now, how do I save that fix so next time I load the Dolb Hair G9, it load in the right place on G9? I figured it out. I just selected the hair and resaved the asset to the same place the converter put it.

    Screenshot 2024-04-14 152046 Dolb Hair Auto Follow Transforms.jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    barbult said:

    Hey, I just remembered to try Auto Follow Transforms on the misplaced Dolb hair, and it sprang up on to his head where it belongs! This is the first time changing Fit to Mode on a failed converted hair actually made a difference for me!

    But now, how do I save that fix so next time I load the Dolb Hair G9, it load in the right place on G9? I figured it out. I just selected the hair and resaved the asset to the same place the converter put it.

    Did not do it for me, Dolb hair is still firmly in the armpit.

  • RiverSoft ArtRiverSoft Art Posts: 6,382
    edited April 17

    Dolb Hair worked for me after setting Auto Follow Transforms.  Librarian hair (Short Hair conformer) required Auto Follow Transforms AND setting the Converter Morph to -100% (and smoothing to finish up):

    I need to look into whether the converter morph being off is a problem more generally, but the conversion did work.

    SInce things are working for some people and not for others, I think people's problems can be a couple big factors:

    1. Not loading a new scene before trying the converted hair
    2. Not deleting the data files before reconverting.

     

    Librarian Hair (-100Morph, Smoothing, AutoFollow).png
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    Post edited by RiverSoft Art on
  • EboshijaanaEboshijaana Posts: 447

    RiverSoft Art said:

    Dolb Hair worked for me after setting Auto Follow Transforms.  Librarian hair (Short Hair conformer) required Auto Follow Transforms AND setting the Converter Morph to -100% (and smoothing to finish up):

    I need to look into whether the converter morph being off is a problem more generally, but the conversion did work.

    SInce things are working for some people and not for others, I think people's problems can be a couple big factors:

    1. Not loading a new scene before trying the converted hair
    2. Not deleting the data files before reconverting.

     

    Okay, so Dolb hair now RANDOMLY obeyed Autofollow. I swear I tested it with the old conversions removed (from data and target folders AND AppData) and Daz Studio was shut down and restarted.

    I did the same with Greyson hair and it still mucks up.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,288
    edited April 18

    If deleting data files is critical, why is it not even mentioned in the PDF manual? Edit: This info IS in the manual. See RiverSoft response below.
    Based on previous forum comments, I did delete data files before trying again. At least they have CV in the folder name now, so they are a little easier to identify.

    Post edited by barbult on
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