REAL Hairy WIP [Commercial]

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Comments

  • NadinoNadino Posts: 258
    edited December 1969

    Lookin' good Mikey! :)

  • DisparateDreamerDisparateDreamer Posts: 2,506
    edited December 1969

    well I would still like an M4 version, I still am not into the genesis 2 bandwagon, not with all the overpowered glowing red skin.....

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    I need input. I'm noticing that the transfer utility is creating filled polygons on a few hairs, but for the life of me I can't figure out why. When the obj is first imported, it looks fine (left). But as soon as the transfer utility is used, I get artifacts (right). Has anyone ever seen this behavior?

    REAL_Hairy_glitch_after.jpg
    1071 x 530 - 387K
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,089
    edited March 2014

    In your previous examples on the alternative shape, how was it applied to it? EG the heavy shape? Thought it was transferred via the transfer utility back then? And yes I have seen this problem before and resolved it.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    In your previous examples on the alternative shape, how was it applied to it? EG the heavy shape? Thought it was transferred via the transfer utility back then? And yes I have seen this problem before and resolved it.

    It's definitely the character morph that causes it. I don't get this issue when I use the transfer utility on the standard Gen 2 Base Male. But after I apply the M6 morph, these few hairs start to stretch with the morph. But I don't understand why it only happens to these particular hairs and not all of them. Do you remember how you resolved it?

  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,089
    edited March 2014

    This will always happen when using standard fiber mesh. You will get some figure shapes where it gets really ugly on some hairs and others where it is fine. The only other solution is to specifically delete those troublesome polygons strands. If you have morphs created on that base, that exact same hair strand must be deleted as well or the geometry won't match. Alternatively you can start over and create a new strand of fiber that won't break (requires crap loads of testing), but don't think that is an option so late in your products development.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited March 2014

    Zev0 said:
    This will always happen when using standard fiber mesh. You will get some shapes where it gets really ugly on some hairs and others where it is fine. The only other solution is to specifically delete those troublesome polygons strands. If you have morphs created on that base, that exact same hair strand must be deleted as well or the geometry won't match. Alternatively you can start over and create a new strand of fiber that won't break (requires crap loads of testing), but don't think that is an option so late in your products development.

    This isn't fibermesh. They're flat polygons. I was hoping the fix didn't involve tracking down particular hairs in a mass like this because it's going to be extraordinarily difficult. But I can't let the product go out with graphical errors so I will have to bite the bullet and track down the offending polygons.

    Post edited by MikeyFTL on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,089
    edited March 2014

    Oh, I thought they were fiber mesh converted to flat polygons. Either way, yes, you will have to track the culprits unfortunately. But test on multiple shapes, as some only misbehave on a particular morph. It's not really visible on thicker hairs, but on fine ones it is. It's been a while since I did geometry hair, so maybe somebody else figured out an alternative solution, but that is the only one I know of.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Oh, I thought they were fiber mesh converted to flat polygons. Either way, yes, you will have to track the culprits unfortunately. But test on multiple shapes, as some only misbehave on a particular morph. It's not really visible on thicker hairs, but on fine ones it is. It's been a while since I did geometry hair, so maybe somebody else figured out an alternative solution, but that is the only one I know of.

    The only other way I can think of doing it is to build a specific fit morph for each shape...but that ends up with a bazillion of them to cover the 'official' ones and probably no support for any free 'true' (sculpted not dialed ones) shapes.

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Zev0 said:
    Oh, I thought they were fiber mesh converted to flat polygons. Either way, yes, you will have to track the culprits unfortunately. But test on multiple shapes, as some only misbehave on a particular morph. It's not really visible on thicker hairs, but on fine ones it is. It's been a while since I did geometry hair, so maybe somebody else figured out an alternative solution, but that is the only one I know of.

    The only other way I can think of doing it is to build a specific fit morph for each shape...but that ends up with a bazillion of them to cover the 'official' ones and probably no support for any free 'true' (sculpted not dialed ones) shapes.

    That's an idea, but I should probably track down these culprit hairs instead of working around them. I guess a March release just isn't going to happen.

  • gabugabu Posts: 303
    edited March 2014

    Sob!

    (as in tears)

    Post edited by gabu on
  • alkenalken Posts: 253
    edited December 1969

    :-(

  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,581
    edited December 1969

    MikeyFTL said:
    mjc1016 said:
    Zev0 said:
    Oh, I thought they were fiber mesh converted to flat polygons. Either way, yes, you will have to track the culprits unfortunately. But test on multiple shapes, as some only misbehave on a particular morph. It's not really visible on thicker hairs, but on fine ones it is. It's been a while since I did geometry hair, so maybe somebody else figured out an alternative solution, but that is the only one I know of.

    The only other way I can think of doing it is to build a specific fit morph for each shape...but that ends up with a bazillion of them to cover the 'official' ones and probably no support for any free 'true' (sculpted not dialed ones) shapes.

    That's an idea, but I should probably track down these culprit hairs instead of working around them. I guess a March release just isn't going to happen.

    If the hair is conforming similar to a body suit, it's probably better to create a fit for the major shapes, such as M6. Any extreme shapes would probably need to be done so it looks good as well. This way you know it's going to look a certain way on that character's starting point, and not leave it to DS to calculate. The thing is to test, test, test before you submit with as many shapes as you can throw at it so you know what works, because don't want to have to rework it during QA and want the cut down the issues that get to the customer.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    MikeyFTL said:
    RAMWolff said:
    What happens if the hair is sub divided? I would think it would smooth out a bit more rather than look jagged on extreme close ups...

    When you mentioned subdividing, I assumed it just involved moving the SubDivision Level slider...which has no effect unless you use the "Convert to SubD" option in the edit menu. I never noticed this option until today.

    Extreme closeups will now have a sick level of detail with no jagged edges. Thanks RAMWolff for the suggestion, even though I wasn't fully understanding it.

    This changes everything.

    I knew you would figure it out. That sir looks like some damned nice chest fur up close and personal! :-)

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,212
    edited December 1969

    Supporting popular shapes by dialing up the shape with the hair on the figure, making sure they are both "on" in the Scene tab, hitting your bridge and taking them in there gives you the opportunity to fine tune it and send the hair back using the newly expanded or what ever shape as a hidden dial that will morph along with the figure as it's being reshaped. It's been a while since I've done that sort of work but once you get your work flow going it's more tedious than anything else.

  • NadinoNadino Posts: 258
    edited December 1969

    MikeyFTL said:

    That's an idea, but I should probably track down these culprit hairs instead of working around them. I guess a March release just isn't going to happen.

    Sad yes but no worries. I'd rather it be done 'right' than done 'right now' :)

  • DkgooseDkgoose Posts: 1,451
    edited December 1969

    looks awesome, can't wait, good work

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    I managed to resolve the issue. Since it was caused by the character morphs stretching certain polygons, I decided to make all the polygons 0.0 wide. When I import the object into DAZ3D, it's invisible because each hair has no width, but they're all still there. But now the width can't be stretched by the character morph. After that I added the thickness morph and voila. Perfect hair with no artifacts. So it looks like the only thing that's affected by the character morph is the original obj. Adding the thickness morph won't recreate the issue.

    REAL_Hairy_pit.jpg
    1500 x 955 - 515K
  • NadinoNadino Posts: 258
    edited December 1969

    Awesome! Yay! :)

  • Silas3DSilas3D Posts: 565
    edited December 1969

    Excellent news, Mikey! Sent you a PM but not sure if it's got through as they've gone astray before.

  • alkenalken Posts: 253
    edited December 1969

    :-) can't wait to buy!

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    tigerste said:
    Excellent news, Mikey! Sent you a PM but not sure if it's got through as they've gone astray before.

    Sorry about that. Didn't know I had a message. Great renders by the way.

  • Silas3DSilas3D Posts: 565
    edited March 2014

    MikeyFTL said:
    tigerste said:
    Excellent news, Mikey! Sent you a PM but not sure if it's got through as they've gone astray before.

    Sorry about that. Didn't know I had a message. Great renders by the way.

    No worries, thanks! Just let me know if you'd like any Lux promos :) btw, will you be doing a facial hair/eyebrow pack too? I know you touched on a beard briefly and had some problems but think someone may have offered a potential solution...

    Post edited by Silas3D on
  • jepegraphicsjepegraphics Posts: 879
    edited December 1969

    All the previews look very fine and promising. My only worry is the growing direction in some areas. I assume that this can't be changed with morphs? I study the growing of male body hair for a while now and it follows a certain pattern that I can't find here.

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited March 2014

    Jepe said:
    All the previews look very fine and promising. My only worry is the growing direction in some areas. I assume that this can't be changed with morphs? I study the growing of male body hair for a while now and it follows a certain pattern that I can't find here.

    I agree. There are a few areas that don't flow naturally that need to be addressed, especially the armpits above. I have several stock images I use as reference, including the most useful of all....myself. Hair grows in many different ways on different men. I am doing my best to create something that will reflect the majority of fur bearers. While my morphs will reproduce different conditions such as curlyness, clumping and wetness, I'm afraid other extreme kinds of hair like Greek and Armenian men may need their own pack. The WIP continues...

    Post edited by MikeyFTL on
  • jepegraphicsjepegraphics Posts: 879
    edited December 1969

    Of course the hair grows in different ways on different man, but it always follows a pattern and direction. I think you've done a fantastic job already making the hair believable, not only in thickness and length in comparison to the whole body, but also the overall appearance. But the lower abdomen (the trail) or the lower arms and upper legs could need some more tweaking still. Armpits are difficult, I think you already have a very fine start, but the growing direction is parted in the middle afaik.

  • FistyFisty Posts: 3,416
    edited December 1969

    This is looking incredible..

    Catchup time..

    $30, highly suggest not going any lower than $25 for base price. Daz will take 50% of every sale, and it will be on 50% off sale a lot here.. if not more. It's really easy as a new PA to sell yourself short, take the advice of the several PAs that have commented already and price it what it's worth, not lower. You may be thinking - well this is easy! - and yeah, the modeling part is usually the most easy and fun part of the process, it's all the other stuff that will have you wanting to throw your computer out the window.

    I had a second thing I wanted to say but I forgot what it was.. I'm getting old.. >.<</p>

    The only part of it that's throwing off my believability alarm is the direction of the forearm hair.. I know all guys are different but almost all of my husbands grows horizontally around his arm.. since I see it all the time that part is messing with my head. =)

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited March 2014

    Wanna play? In celebration of St. Patty's Day, I've uploaded this freebie to my deviantart page.

    This is the v-neck section of REAL Hairy. There are sliders for length, thickness, curl, clump and wetness...as well as 9 hair colors. In order to keep filesizes to a minimum, not all of these morphs may be included in the final product. As always, your input is appreciated.

    Just save and unzip to "My Library"

    Freebie is under People/Genesis 2 Male/Hair/REAL Hairy_Free

    http://mikeyftl.deviantart.com/art/REAL-Hairy-Free-441011131

    Have fun!

    Post edited by MikeyFTL on
  • alkenalken Posts: 253
    edited December 1969

    The Data is missing...I get a gray box on his chest. lol

  • MikeyFTLMikeyFTL Posts: 367
    edited December 1969

    alken said:
    The Data is missing...I get a gray box on his chest. lol

    Oh for the love of....

    Let me see what I forgot.

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