Genesis 9 Coming Soon! Preorder Victoria 9 HD Today

PerttiA

TheRetiredSailor said:

I think making judgements about G9 at this point is like watching a 30 second trailer for a movie and deciding the movie's ending is no good.  The procuct should be out before long, even with "DAZ soon." 

The 30 second trailer has already shown us the lowres geometry of the chest that would look fine on a barn door, but is severly lacking for a human chest details. We have also been lead to believe, the details will be HD morphs that can only be done by DAZ and DAZ PA's, not by us ourselves.

Sure, someone on the other stores will make a geograft, but that's not the same.

Mada

I don't think the nipples are going to be quite as limiting as perceived... unless you're doing an 8K render of a nipple in close up view, between normal maps and normal non HD morphs its really not bad.

Pendraia

Thanks for the feedback canary 3d! Sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun.  I think at the moment speculation is rife but until we get the figure none of us know for sure.

barbult

Canary3d said:

The posing is really nice - not sure if I'm allowed to say anthing very specific about that before it's officially released, but I'll say I've been making poses since Genesis 1, and I'm very happy with the rig & weight mapping.  The mesh itself is delightful - a good density for sculpting without needing to do HD morphs, but not so dense that it requires fiddly weight mapping for clothing, and there are no weird pinch points. I'm having a lot of fun working on products for this figure. Being able to use the merchant resource morphs to tweak my character sculpts is a huge time saver - it's not that you *have* to use them, but sometimes you just want to make the nose bigger or something, and being able to dial it up and bake it into my shape is so much faster. I'm mostly making normal-res shapes--there are nipples and navel HD morphs built into the figure, so I'm just going with those for now, dialing them up and ERC'ing them to autodial along with my shapes. 

I also like working from a unified base and then making gendered versions of things, because I'm always interested in more male content, as well as clothing etc. for kids. So I end up converting stuff that I buy quite frequently, just to have male versions. It'll be a lot easier with G9, but without the old Genesis 1 problem of trying to build clothes on a totally flat-chested figure.

Anyway, I hop around in my interests--shapes, textures, props, poses, clothes, and now I've also learned to make dforce hair--so I am making a little of everything for Genesis 9, and I'm having a lot of fun doing it. I still love the earleir generations of figures--heck, I still render things with Aiko 3 from time to time--but I'm one PA who's super-psyched about Genesis 9, for what it's worth. 

I'm eager to see your new products. 

nonesuch00

Mada said:

... or it could simply be that there's a push to make G9 as friendly as possible to use, and for Daz PAs to have access to these morphs is a great perk. :) Its not always nefarious and trying to cut out other stores. A lot of work and thinking went into G9.

I can give honest feedback in that most PAs who have worked with G9, characters as well as clothing - are very pleased with G9 and hate going back to do something on G8.

With the first Genesis nipples between male and female always caused issues, especially on the male chest. HD nipples is a great solution for that. Knowing this community I am also certain that other solutions will appear rapidly :)

That sounds good but will the G9 characters with HD features be exportable with those HD features there? In the past I've always just exported that character, at whatever the default resolution subD was, and it looked fine. Now I've not had any bare chested He-Man type characters needed in a game engine yet, others have I know, and they'd look pretty weird without nipples if those don't get exported because they are HD.  

Thanks for clarifying. 

Jay Versluis

nonesuch00 said:

That sounds good but will the G9 characters with HD features be exportable with those HD features there? In the past I've always just exported that character, at whatever the default resolution subD was, and it looked line. Now I've not had any bare chested He-Man type characters needed in a game engine yet, others have I know, and they'd look pretty weird without nipples if those don't get exported because the are HD.  

Thanks for clarifying. 

Indeed, you can export all HD details as part of the geometry. Just make sure that you set the View SubD Level as it will match what will be exported. I've touched on the implications in Saturday's stream at the 41:50 mark. You may need to set this to 3 or higher instead of the default 1 to bring out all the detail you need.

Jay Versluis

I've just posted some of the 8K skin detail comparison renders over on my Daz Gallery and ArtStation, here's a selecton. Those were rendered at 4000x4000 at 5000 iterations. Zoom in to see that 8K normal map pop!

This detail level is disabled by default, and from my tests only adds an extra 100MB to VRAM usage per character (if I read the log files correctly). This is great news for those who worry if G9 and V9 will be too heavy on the hardware. In my tests I could render VIctoria 9 just as well as G8 figures on a GTX 970 system with 4GB of VRAM.

 

Gordig

Those renders are a somewhat unfair comparison, because the 8K side is more well-lit than the normal side.

Pendraia

Jay Versluis said:

I've just posted some of the 8K skin detail comparison renders over on my Daz Gallery and ArtStation, here's a selecton. Those were rendered at 4000x4000 at 5000 iterations. Zoom in to see that 8K normal map pop!

This detail level is disabled by default, and from my tests only adds an extra 100MB to VRAM usage per character (if I read the log files correctly). This is great news for those who worry if G9 and V9 will be too heavy on the hardware. In my tests I could render VIctoria 9 just as well as G8 figures on a GTX 970 system with 4GB of VRAM.

 

Apart from the last one I don't like either skin...the 8K skin I think the pores look too large and too deep. But I often find the settings on textures not to my liking so nothing new there. I'm hopeful that adjusting some of the surface settings would improve it. The best skin is the last one...

Catherine3678ab

Jay Versluis said:

I've just posted some of the 8K skin detail comparison renders over on my Daz Gallery and ArtStation, here's a selecton. Those were rendered at 4000x4000 at 5000 iterations. Zoom in to see that 8K normal map pop!

This detail level is disabled by default, and from my tests only adds an extra 100MB to VRAM usage per character (if I read the log files correctly). This is great news for those who worry if G9 and V9 will be too heavy on the hardware. In my tests I could render VIctoria 9 just as well as G8 figures on a GTX 970 system with 4GB of VRAM.

 

Thank you, looking forward to these very well done new textures :-) 

nonesuch00

Jay Versluis said:

nonesuch00 said:

That sounds good but will the G9 characters with HD features be exportable with those HD features there? In the past I've always just exported that character, at whatever the default resolution subD was, and it looked line. Now I've not had any bare chested He-Man type characters needed in a game engine yet, others have I know, and they'd look pretty weird without nipples if those don't get exported because the are HD.  

Thanks for clarifying. 

Indeed, you can export all HD details as part of the geometry. Just make sure that you set the View SubD Level as it will match what will be exported. I've touched on the implications in Saturday's stream at the 41:50 mark. You may need to set this to 3 or higher instead of the default 1 to bring out all the detail you need.

OK, thank you very much Jay.

PerttiA

Jay Versluis said:

This detail level is disabled by default, and from my tests only adds an extra 100MB to VRAM usage per character (if I read the log files correctly). This is great news for those who worry if G9 and V9 will be too heavy on the hardware. In my tests I could render VIctoria 9 just as well as G8 figures on a GTX 970 system with 4GB of VRAM.

How is that possible with Windows taking 1GB of VRAM, RTX emulation taking another 1GB, DS taking a couple of hundred MB's, the base load of the scene taking some and the Iray 'working space' needing some. By my count, the 4GB's of VRAM has been eaten even before starting rendering, where the geometry and textures for G8 typically take about 1.5GB's of VRAM.

Has Nvidia brought back the information about VRAM usage for geometry and textures, or what are you referring to with "if I read the log files correctly"? 

Padone

@Mada Thank you for providing the point of view of a PA. Unfortunately the fact that G9 is easier for PAs to work with means nothing to us users. Unless the G9 prices will be lower because it's easier. Then please understand that the big news about G9 is it requires HD to work, you can't have the basic body features without HD. This means that G9 will be heavy on the cpu and gpu, if I can render a G8 scene with a 6G card, it will require a 12G card for the same scene with G9. This is not good.

 

generalgameplaying

Padone said:

@Mada Thank you for providing the point of view of a PA. Unfortunately the fact that G9 is easier for PAs to work with means nothing to us users. Unless the G9 prices will be lower because it's easier. Then please understand that the big news about G9 is it requires HD to work, you can't have the basic body features without HD. This means that G9 will be heavy on the cpu and gpu, if I can render a G8 scene with a 6G card, it will require a 12G card for the same scene with G9. This is not good.

I may not be representative for a user, but:

- G9 heavy/when ... why twice? 8kx8k is four times 4kx4k, but that's probably not what it boils down to. I don't want to spread misinformation, but the person in the G9 presentation video just recently pointet out, that g9 can be rendered on less powerful hardware "similarly". 

- G9 better for PA... it has a meaning, if generic clothing and other items become more common. This could mean, that cost-efficient male+female stuff might become available more commonly. However it will probably still take quite a while, since it's the new thing.

- G9 default morphs. This looks like i might alter character more than buying. Looks good.

- G8 still is there, so is G3. Some Scripts and plugins will become incompatible with the new DAZ Studio version, unfortunately. 4+5 can still be run in parallel for a while, but who knows, for how long?

 

So concerning the usefulness on the long run, i'm not so sceptical. For established users, i can't really speak.

Gator

Padone said:

@Mada Thank you for providing the point of view of a PA. Unfortunately the fact that G9 is easier for PAs to work with means nothing to us users. Unless the G9 prices will be lower because it's easier. Then please understand that the big news about G9 is it requires HD to work, you can't have the basic body features without HD. This means that G9 will be heavy on the cpu and gpu, if I can render a G8 scene with a 6G card, it will require a 12G card for the same scene with G9. This is not good.

 

On the highlighted bit - no, hardly at all really.  You can turn subD off and then it's roughly the same number of vertices.  The default with G8 is with subD on, and I highly doubt you were rendering with subD off, unless you were rendering a bunch of figures and they were far from the camera.  If you watched the streams, only the normal maps are 8K IIRC, and they are optional (edit - so I assume there are also 4K normal maps).  You still have 4K texture maps to use.  So at worst to render with similar resource utilization you set subD down a level.

If it's easier to work with for PAs I don't see how you don't see that as a good thing, that means faster product development which means they could produce similar quality content faster - more products, more variety.

Mada

PAs are the canaries in the coal mine - if they hate the figure then there's a problem. With content creation you are studying the figure under a microscope and have to fix any issues you're running into - they will spend a LOT more time using a figure when creating than the average user :)

nicstt

Pendraia said:

rofl...so things haven't changed and are still Daz soon.

It's lliving long and prospering very well. :)

nicstt

Gator said:

Eagerly awaiting, as I have already purchased the bundle.  Also I skipped 8 and 8.1 as with all the add-ons to Genesis 3 I have I didn't see it as much of an upgrade really.  Already have HD hands and feet (unavailable on G8), fibermesh brows, fibermesh eyelashes, and I bought a few G8 figures and reverse engineered the G8 dual lobe specular Iray shaders for my G3 figures.  

I was really looking forward to finally a new figure with substancial upgrades, and excited the mesh is finally more dense.  I'm really concerned about going back to a unimesh - how do they solve some of the UV issues with that?  It does no good to achieve hyper-realism with the face if the body details do not match.

1 - UV stretching with the breasts. 

2 - Just downright awful stretching with the nipples - with a completely flat base mesh, the nipples are going to be stretched to an absurd degree.  Without any nipple mesh in the base, there's nothing us users can do anything about it.

 

To me, G8 was a very decent improvement on 3

nicstt

3DRT said:

On a recent stream, we saw that navel morphs for G9 are all HD. Is the creation of HD morphs still limited to DAZ PAs? If so, wouldn't that severely limit the capability of artists on other stores to create custom characters for G9?

Why would they empower the competition?

I'm sure they'll be able to figure something out.

Gordig

nicstt said:

3DRT said:

On a recent stream, we saw that navel morphs for G9 are all HD. Is the creation of HD morphs still limited to DAZ PAs? If so, wouldn't that severely limit the capability of artists on other stores to create custom characters for G9?

Why would they empower the competition?

I'm sure they'll be able to figure something out.

Since all anybody seems to be focused on is nipples, I'm guessing the creators in other stores that they're worried about aren't really Daz's competition anyway.

Pendraia

Mada said:

PAs are the canaries in the coal mine - if they hate the figure then there's a problem. With content creation you are studying the figure under a microscope and have to fix any issues you're running into - they will spend a LOT more time using a figure when creating than the average user :)

this is so true! If the PA's don't like a figure they won't make stuff for it...

Speaking of content. Am I the only one to notice there are now links on the bundle page but they only lead to pages that say oops! Except for the one for Victoria.

Image removed

MimicMolly

Pendraia said:

Mada said:

PAs are the canaries in the coal mine - if they hate the figure then there's a problem. With content creation you are studying the figure under a microscope and have to fix any issues you're running into - they will spend a LOT more time using a figure when creating than the average user :)

this is so true! If the PA's don't like a figure they won't make stuff for it...

Speaking of content. Am I the only one to notice there are now links on the bundle page but they only lead to pages that say oops! Except for the one for Victoria.

Image removed

Not anymore. X'D

But I am now curious on how G9 can move like a mango, if it has a "Mango Movement Collection."

Ron Knights

I'll play it safe, and wait for others to buy her, and give their impressions. I have no interest in all the technical talk about meshes, etc. I've been a DAZ customer since they were known as Zygote (20+ years). I'm tried of spending all that money, only to encounter confusion and frustration. And I avoid Pre-Orders like the plague.

plasma_ring

PerttiA said:

TheRetiredSailor said:

I think making judgements about G9 at this point is like watching a 30 second trailer for a movie and deciding the movie's ending is no good.  The procuct should be out before long, even with "DAZ soon." 

The 30 second trailer has already shown us the lowres geometry of the chest that would look fine on a barn door, but is severly lacking for a human chest details. We have also been lead to believe, the details will be HD morphs that can only be done by DAZ and DAZ PA's, not by us ourselves.

Sure, someone on the other stores will make a geograft, but that's not the same.

Maybe I'm not getting it because I was never satisfied with morphs alone on the chest area, but I always figured the geografts were at least partially a solution to the fact that we've never been able to customize the geometry there at the level of detail PAs are capable of. There are some third-party morph packs I can think of that have sculpted details, but they're pretty uniformly just the nipple area pulled out and basically indistinguishable from each other to me. I wish we had access to HD tools and all, and it does suck for anyone who was really getting into morphing those areas on their custom shapes, but most vendors I've seen don't. There's only so much you can do, even with the dedicated topology there. 

Pendraia

MimicMolly said:

Pendraia said:

Mada said:

PAs are the canaries in the coal mine - if they hate the figure then there's a problem. With content creation you are studying the figure under a microscope and have to fix any issues you're running into - they will spend a LOT more time using a figure when creating than the average user :)

this is so true! If the PA's don't like a figure they won't make stuff for it...

Speaking of content. Am I the only one to notice there are now links on the bundle page but they only lead to pages that say oops! Except for the one for Victoria.

Image removed

Not anymore. X'D

But I am now curious on how G9 can move like a mango, if it has a "Mango Movement Collection."

Yeah, I wondered about that. 

alienarea

Pendraia said:

MimicMolly said:

Pendraia said:

Mada said:

PAs are the canaries in the coal mine - if they hate the figure then there's a problem. With content creation you are studying the figure under a microscope and have to fix any issues you're running into - they will spend a LOT more time using a figure when creating than the average user :)

this is so true! If the PA's don't like a figure they won't make stuff for it...

Speaking of content. Am I the only one to notice there are now links on the bundle page but they only lead to pages that say oops! Except for the one for Victoria.

Image removed

Not anymore. X'D

But I am now curious on how G9 can move like a mango, if it has a "Mango Movement Collection."

Yeah, I wondered about that. 

How does a Mango move? It doesn't, on its own. Maybe aninteresting wording for a standing pose collectiion.

Padone

Gator said:

You can turn subD off and then it's roughly the same number of vertices.

Again, with G9 you are forced to use HD for the basic body features, then HD requires a high level of subdivision at least 3-4 this is the whole point there.

Seven193

PerttiA said:

Twilight76 said:

i think next week will we know more :)
4.21 is now in the changelogs to find...

Minimum R510 driver is 512.78 on Windows
​Minimum R515 driver is 516.93 on Windows

End of W7 support.

 

Dropping support for Windows 7?  That seems like a big deal for those who have pre-ordered something and then find out they can't use it.

Twilight76

Seven193 said:

PerttiA said:

Twilight76 said:

i think next week will we know more :)
4.21 is now in the changelogs to find...

Minimum R510 driver is 512.78 on Windows
​Minimum R515 driver is 516.93 on Windows

End of W7 support.

 

Dropping support for Windows 7?  That seems like a big deal for those who have pre-ordered something and then find out they can't use it.

The End of Windows 7 Support is in the next Version after the Release of Genesis 9.
4.21.0 is the Version for the Genesis 9 Support so far i know.

DAZ Studio : Incremented build number to 4.21.1.2

---

• Source maintenance

• Update to dForce 1.7.1.2

  • Uses 4.21.1.x SDK

  • Updates plugin revision to reflect SDK revision

  • Maintains Publishing Partner Features functionality

• Update to NVIDIA Iray 2022.0.1 (359000.3383)

  • Minimum R510 driver is 512.78 on Windows

  • Minimum R515 driver is 516.93 on Windows

  • SSSE3 enabled CPU is a minimum requirement on macOS/x86

• Added new generated shader brick

  • DzMdlBaseVolumeBlackbodyEmission (Volume Blackbody Emission

Richard Haseltine

Twilight76 said:

Seven193 said:

PerttiA said:

Twilight76 said:

i think next week will we know more :)
4.21 is now in the changelogs to find...

Minimum R510 driver is 512.78 on Windows
​Minimum R515 driver is 516.93 on Windows

End of W7 support.

 

Dropping support for Windows 7?  That seems like a big deal for those who have pre-ordered something and then find out they can't use it.

The End of Windows 7 Support is in the next Version after the Release of Genesis 9.
4.21.0 is the Version for the Genesis 9 Support so far i know.

DAZ Studio : Incremented build number to 4.21.1.2

---

• Source maintenance

• Update to dForce 1.7.1.2

  • Uses 4.21.1.x SDK

  • Updates plugin revision to reflect SDK revision

  • Maintains Publishing Partner Features functionality

• Update to NVIDIA Iray 2022.0.1 (359000.3383)

  • Minimum R510 driver is 512.78 on Windows

  • Minimum R515 driver is 516.93 on Windows

  • SSSE3 enabled CPU is a minimum requirement on macOS/x86

• Added new generated shader brick

  • DzMdlBaseVolumeBlackbodyEmission (Volume Blackbody Emission

Genesis 9 requires Daz Studio 4.21.0.x. The builds with that update are 4.21.1.x - that is, the next version after the one Genesis 9 requires. 4.21.0.x will be the final version of the current 4.20.1.x public builds.