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Windows 10 - It's heeerrre! and it's free for some

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  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,157

    this makes more sense:

     

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,157
    nDelphi said:
    MEC4D said:

    And I dressed my win8.1 pro in new T-Shirt , since I work on touch screen much easy to navigate stuff  cheeky

     

    Nice. I wonder does anyone here use QTTabBar? It provides tab navigation in Explorer.

    Something nice happened to me that seems to have been fixed during the last few Windows updates. My Windows 10 now boots faster than my previous Windows 7! Before it was taking about 5 times longer.

     

    Update: I had the wrong link to QTTabBar.

    Cool.  It's been updated.  I used to use this back on Win 7

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    and as thank you they give you a nice window wallpaper  and desctop menu back lol you already agreed with it ..too late Richard ..Big brother watching you ! 

    RAMWolff said:

    They can't do that.  Gotta research that a bit more. 

     

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,853

    A good place to understand what EULAs can and can't do is eff.org. Even Yahoo got slapped when they changed the EULA of Geocities. They had the audacity to claim all the content on Geocities' websites as exclusive to Yahoo! LOL! They thought they were going to get away with that.

    Seriously, EULAs contain a lot of stuff that goes against local, state, and federal laws. They can be challenged in court.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,126
    Robert Freise said:

    Have you seen this in the M$ EULA

    To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content, for example, to make copies of, retain, transmit, reformat, display, and distribute via communication tools Your Content 

    *Darth Vader voice*   "...I am altering the deal.Pray I don't alter it any further."

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,449
    MEC4D said:

    usually each software copy has unique serial so that is not big deal to track, a years ago there was already software to track even zip files that include hidden code .

    if the serial number does not reflect the sold serial numbers provided by the reseller or seller  it will be blocked no matter how you pay for, that why expensive software makers tell you to purchase software only by own authorized dealers to avoid fake copies . But the total content is not bad as it will fight the piracy , as long they do it right and don't mess with the good guys computers .

    Kulay Wolf said:

    Hmmmm, how would they know if a software was used with a stolen serial number or one the user actually paid for?  Or here is a hypothetical question, what if someone used pirated software but activated it with a serial that they paid with real money?  I am not avocating piracy at all but just wondering how would Windows know?

     

    This is wild speculation. Nothing in the EULA section gives information on how, if at all, it will be applied - nor to what. Why would MS police any software but their own, even if they exercised the rights they are giving themselves? This is a discussion without fiundation and needs to be dropped - yes, note that the clause is there but there's nothing useful to do beyond that at the moment.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 99,449
    icecrmn said:
    Robert Freise said:

    Have you seen this in the M$ EULA

    To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content, for example, to make copies of, retain, transmit, reformat, display, and distribute via communication tools Your Content 

    *Darth Vader voice*   "...I am altering the deal.Pray I don't alter it any further."

    That looks like a fairly standard clause to allow for backing up (OneDrive, for example) or for analysing data in crash reports. It explictly limits what can be done, so they can't take your artwork or writing and publish it for themselves, or use it as publicity, or anything else that is likely to infringe on your usual rights.

  • IceCrMnIceCrMn Posts: 2,126
    Richard Haseltine said:
    icecrmn said:
    Robert Freise said:

    Have you seen this in the M$ EULA

    To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content, for example, to make copies of, retain, transmit, reformat, display, and distribute via communication tools Your Content 

    *Darth Vader voice*   "...I am altering the deal.Pray I don't alter it any further."

    That looks like a fairly standard clause to allow for backing up (OneDrive, for example) or for analysing data in crash reports. It explictly limits what can be done, so they can't take your artwork or writing and publish it for themselves, or use it as publicity, or anything else that is likely to infringe on your usual rights.

    I thought it was funny :P LOL

    I know what they are getting at, it's just such a "natzi" way they write all those legal disclaimers.

    I , for one, think a way to enforce anti-piracy would be fantastic.I would love to see some of the no skill hacks that plagiarize, copy, and outright steal from others their creative works get sued in court.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    And it took a full column in the national news ? just speculation ? well I don't care what they do or not to tell you the truth as I am not the one that have to worry about ..subject closed 

    Richard Haseltine said:
    MEC4D said:

    usually each software copy has unique serial so that is not big deal to track, a years ago there was already software to track even zip files that include hidden code .

    if the serial number does not reflect the sold serial numbers provided by the reseller or seller  it will be blocked no matter how you pay for, that why expensive software makers tell you to purchase software only by own authorized dealers to avoid fake copies . But the total content is not bad as it will fight the piracy , as long they do it right and don't mess with the good guys computers .

    Kulay Wolf said:

    Hmmmm, how would they know if a software was used with a stolen serial number or one the user actually paid for?  Or here is a hypothetical question, what if someone used pirated software but activated it with a serial that they paid with real money?  I am not avocating piracy at all but just wondering how would Windows know?

     

    This is wild speculation. Nothing in the EULA section gives information on how, if at all, it will be applied - nor to what. Why would MS police any software but their own, even if they exercised the rights they are giving themselves? This is a discussion without fiundation and needs to be dropped - yes, note that the clause is there but there's nothing useful to do beyond that at the moment.

     

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    +1

    icecrmn said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    icecrmn said:
    Robert Freise said:

    Have you seen this in the M$ EULA

    To the extent necessary to provide the Services to you and others, to protect you and the Services, and to improve Microsoft products and services, you grant to Microsoft a worldwide and royalty-free intellectual property license to use Your Content, for example, to make copies of, retain, transmit, reformat, display, and distribute via communication tools Your Content 

    *Darth Vader voice*   "...I am altering the deal.Pray I don't alter it any further."

    That looks like a fairly standard clause to allow for backing up (OneDrive, for example) or for analysing data in crash reports. It explictly limits what can be done, so they can't take your artwork or writing and publish it for themselves, or use it as publicity, or anything else that is likely to infringe on your usual rights.

    I thought it was funny :P LOL

    I know what they are getting at, it's just such a "natzi" way they write all those legal disclaimers.

    I , for one, think a way to enforce anti-piracy would be fantastic.I would love to see some of the no skill hacks that plagiarize, copy, and outright steal from others their creative works get sued in court.

     

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited August 2015
    RAMWolff said:

    this makes more sense:

     

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/servicesagreement/

    Thank you for this link Richard. After carefully reading over and their service agreement policy..  I will make no attempt to upgrade or use windows10 at all  their Microsoft Services Agreement states  it pretty clear   what they will do if you violate any of the terms

    b. Enforcement. If you violate these Terms, we may stop providing Services to you or we may close your Microsoft account or Skype account. We may also block delivery of a communication (like email or instant message) to or from the Services in an effort to enforce these Terms or we may remove or refuse to publish Your Content for any reason. When investigating alleged violations of these Terms, Microsoft reserves the right to review Your Content in order to resolve the issue. However, we cannot monitor the entire Services and make no attempt to do so.

      This includes posting or stores any nude graphics  " iv. Don’t publicly display or use the Services to share inappropriate Content or material (involving, for example, nudity, bestiality, pornography, graphic violence, or criminal activity)."

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I hate to tell Microsoft this but some people use their computers for soft porn. Romance novels, and even violent crime related fantasy stories or blogs,  some people even make 3d graphic & photoshop images that create nude pictures for all kind of reasons   such as book covers art work for print and internet etc.. all of which  MS can make erroneous  judgments against you with no appeal  this I dare say will hurt many book publishers. .  which could or as they state will violate their terms of service.. wow and i thought Daz has a tough TOS .. I will be very surprised if in the future after MS cancels  a big media or publishing company service being a huge law suit.

    The one that bothers me the most is this clause they have  which basicly states they will not be responciable for your data or privacy  even though they are the ones making it so easy for it to be access by the whole world .. they even say  with this clause

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2. Your Content. Many of our Services allow you to store or share Your Content or receive material from others. We don’t claim ownership of Your Content. Your Content remains Your Content and you are responsible for it.

    • a. When you share Your Content with other people, you understand that they may be able to, on a worldwide basis, use, save, record, reproduce, transmit, display (and on HealthVault delete) Your Content without compensating you. If you do not want others to have that ability, do not use the Services to share Your Content. You represent and warrant that for the duration of these Terms, you have (and will have) all the rights necessary for Your Content that is uploaded, stored or shared on or through the Services and that the collection, use, and retention of Your Content will not violate any law or rights of others. Microsoft cannot be held responsible for Your Content or the material others upload, store or share using the Services

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    All I can say No Thanks MS when this win7 OS i have now is no longer any good I will be retiring from  windows,   concidering that MS services  include their windows 10 operating & cloud systems as aMS service. All I can say is wow.   the more I read the more it sounds like a something out of the book 1984

     

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,249

    +1 @Ivy

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    MEC4D said:

    +1 @Ivy

    seriuosly talk about Nanny do-gooders gone Amuck.. really crazy stuff

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941
    edited August 2015

    ...and again, will open source software (like Open Office) be a target as well since it isn't MS office?

    It's not speculation, it's MS protecting their Biz.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited August 2015
    kyoto kid said:

    ...and again, will open source software (like Open Office) be a target as well since it isn't MS office?

    It's not speculation, it's MS protecting their Biz.

     

    I would imagine any software or cloud service  could be a targeted under the MS TOS.. they have a clause in the tos about third party software and App services

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    5. Using Third-Party Apps and Services. Our Services may allow you to access or acquire products, services, websites, links, content, material, games or applications from third parties (companies or people who aren’t Microsoft) ("Third-Party Apps and Services"). Many of our Services also help you find Third-Party Apps and Services, and you understand that you are directing our Services to provide Third-Party Apps and Services to you. The Third-Party Apps and Services may also allow you to store Your Content or Data with the publisher, provider, or operator of the Third-Party Apps and Services. The Third-Party Apps and Services may present you with a privacy policy or require you to accept additional terms of use before you can install or use the Third-Party App or Service. See section 14(b) for additional terms for applications acquired through the Office Store, the Xbox Store or the Windows Store. You should review any additional terms and privacy policies before acquiring or using any Third-Party Apps and Services. Any additional terms do not modify any of these Terms. You are responsible for your dealings with third parties. Microsoft does not license any intellectual property to you as part of any Third-Party Apps and Services and is not responsible for information provided by third parties.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Now lets see what does 14(b) say..:  section 14(b). . Service-Specific Terms. The terms before and after section 14 apply generally to all Services. This section contains service-specific terms that are in addition to the general terms.

    b. Store. "Store" refers to a Service that allows you to browse, download, purchase, and rate and review applications (the term "application" includes games) and other digital content. These Terms cover use of Office Store, Xbox Store and Windows Store. "Office Store" means a Store for Office products and apps for Office, SharePoint, Exchange, Access and Project (2013 versions or later). "Windows Store" means a Store for Windows devices such as phone, PC and tablet, or any other experience that is branded Windows Store. "Xbox Store" means a Store for Xbox ONE and Xbox 360 consoles, or any other experience that is branded Xbox Store.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    meaning that MS general terms of services will be applied to thrid party apps even if they have their own TOS  if its related to MS services "Office Store" means a Store for Office products and apps for Office, SharePoint, Exchange, Access and Project (2013 versions or later) As stated by their TOS

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941

    ...that is what I am concerned about. Gimp Blender and such may be OK at least, I hope unless MS buys some 3D application to tout as their own like they attempted to do with TrueSpace before they killed it.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited August 2015
    kyoto kid said:

    ...that is what I am concerned about. Gimp Blender and such may be OK at least, I hope unless MS buys some 3D application to tout as their own like they attempted to do with TrueSpace before they killed it.

    I can see all this being a set up for a Subscription service OS  only because its already stated in their TOS  that office/windows365 is a Subscription service for a fee of $99 a year or $9.95 a month so it won;t be a surprise when windows 10 becomes part of  Office/windows365  as a paid for MS Subscription service.  if you read what they already offer a subscription services .  I can see MS become very much like Apple in that  you will need MS apps or Approved MS third party apps to use MS windows services. there is a very long list of services they are already charging services fee for , or as stated at the bottom of the page planned services like Operating system Windows 365  which Office 365 is already a paid by subscriptions.. Its not speculation when its clearly stated in their TOS.. BTW did you notice they call windows 10 a service and not a operating system. that alone tells us whats in store for the future,

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164

    there is another option  which is not much better than windows services because it has its own laundry list of issues & its stilla web OS. and that is Google Chrome OS

    here is the download page. http://download.cnet.com/Google-Chrome-OS/3000-18513_4-75329145.html ;

    and Google chrome OS  for linux  Download Cr OS Linux http://getchrome.eu/download.php

    just beware that Google OS is a web Operating system  which requires little resources but never the less its is still a web or cloud OS

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941
    edited August 2015
    Ivy said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...that is what I am concerned about. Gimp Blender and such may be OK at least, I hope unless MS buys some 3D application to tout as their own like they attempted to do with TrueSpace before they killed it.

    I can see all this being a set up for a Subscription service OS  only because its already stated in their TOS  that office/windows365 is a Subscription service for a fee of $99 a year or $9.95 a month so it won;t be a surprise when windows 10 becomes part of  Office/windows365  as a paid for MS Subscription service.  if you read what they already offer a subscription services .  I can see MS become very much like Apple in that  you will need MS apps or Approved MS third party apps to use MS windows services. there is a very long list of services they are already charging services fee for , or as stated at the bottom of the page planned services like Operating system Windows 365  which Office 365 is already a paid by subscriptions.. Its not speculation when its clearly stated in their TOS.. BTW did you notice they call windows 10 a service and not a operating system. that alone tells us whats in store for the future,

    ...yes, and they also filed for the tradename "Windows 365".

    Daz and others better get on the ball to support Linux within the next four to five years. Blender and Gimp are already there.

    If people don't wake up see what is happening here, a lot of bad will happen. Just look at history and how MS weaseled their way to become the primary OS for just about everything these days.

    ...and I am NOT a linux "fanboy" by no means as I hate having to write code.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,164
    edited August 2015
    kyoto kid said:
    Ivy said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...that is what I am concerned about. Gimp Blender and such may be OK at least, I hope unless MS buys some 3D application to tout as their own like they attempted to do with TrueSpace before they killed it.

    I can see all this being a set up for a Subscription service OS  only because its already stated in their TOS  that office/windows365 is a Subscription service for a fee of $99 a year or $9.95 a month so it won;t be a surprise when windows 10 becomes part of  Office/windows365  as a paid for MS Subscription service.  if you read what they already offer a subscription services .  I can see MS become very much like Apple in that  you will need MS apps or Approved MS third party apps to use MS windows services. there is a very long list of services they are already charging services fee for , or as stated at the bottom of the page planned services like Operating system Windows 365  which Office 365 is already a paid by subscriptions.. Its not speculation when its clearly stated in their TOS.. BTW did you notice they call windows 10 a service and not a operating system. that alone tells us whats in store for the future,

    ...yes, and they also filed for the tradename "Windows 365".

    Daz and others better get on the ball to support Linux within the next four to five years. Blender and Gimp are already there.

    If people don't wake up see what is happening here, a lot of bad will happen. Just look at history and how MS weaseled their way to become the primary OS for just about everything these days.

    ...and I am NOT a linux "fanboy" by no means as I hate having to write code.

    well in 4 or 5 years everything will be apps not software, and everything will be a Paid web subscriptions service app.  Adobe, Xbox, and Autodesk have already taken that route

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Robert FreiseRobert Freise Posts: 4,395
    Ivy said:
    kyoto kid said:
    Ivy said:
    kyoto kid said:

    ...that is what I am concerned about. Gimp Blender and such may be OK at least, I hope unless MS buys some 3D application to tout as their own like they attempted to do with TrueSpace before they killed it.

    I can see all this being a set up for a Subscription service OS  only because its already stated in their TOS  that office/windows365 is a Subscription service for a fee of $99 a year or $9.95 a month so it won;t be a surprise when windows 10 becomes part of  Office/windows365  as a paid for MS Subscription service.  if you read what they already offer a subscription services .  I can see MS become very much like Apple in that  you will need MS apps or Approved MS third party apps to use MS windows services. there is a very long list of services they are already charging services fee for , or as stated at the bottom of the page planned services like Operating system Windows 365  which Office 365 is already a paid by subscriptions.. Its not speculation when its clearly stated in their TOS.. BTW did you notice they call windows 10 a service and not a operating system. that alone tells us whats in store for the future,

    ...yes, and they also filed for the tradename "Windows 365".

    Daz and others better get on the ball to support Linux within the next four to five years. Blender and Gimp are already there.

    If people don't wake up see what is happening here, a lot of bad will happen. Just look at history and how MS weaseled their way to become the primary OS for just about everything these days.

    ...and I am NOT a linux "fanboy" by no means as I hate having to write code.

    well in 4 or 5 years everything will be apps not software, and everything will be a Paid web subscriptions service app.  Adobe, Xbox, and Autodesk have already taken that route

    That's the main reason I won't use them

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941
    edited August 2015

    ...yeah, but if you pony up the big money up front (at least where 3DS  and Photoshop are concerned), you can still get perpetual licences. Not al ot of people, especially pros, care to work in the cloud and frankly, I don't blame them. . Daz already tried that with a basic version of Daz 4.0 and it went nowhere.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460

    You know what folks, I'm out of this thread. There's no way I'm getting Windows 10 and if WINE gets sorted so DS 64bit can run then I won't even use Windows 7.

    See you in Linux!

    CHEERS!

  • KaribouKaribou Posts: 1,325

    Okay, I'm not a pornographer, but "iv. Don’t publicly display or use the Services to share inappropriate Content or material (involving, for example, nudity, bestiality, pornography, graphic violence, or criminal activity)." bothers me when some of the listed services include:

    • Outlook.com
    • Skype
    • Windows Live Mail

    "use the Services to share" seems (to me, at least) to include emailing a naked photo of a pumkin-boob Poser person to my bff, or Skyping shirtless with my husband.  Not saying I'd actually DO those things (because, you know, weird!) but it disturbs me to know that Microsoft's Services Agreement forbids it.  I understand that they aren't really going to enforce it (unless there's a complaint), but it seems ridiculous to have that in a Service Agreement.  I like to abide by the things I agree to, but this is an area I can conceivably see myself breaking the rules over.  I'm an artist.  Nudity is NOT obscenity, and yet the Service Agreement makes no distinction. 

    I know I am going to have to update to Windows 10.  (Really, what choice do I have? EVERYTHING runs on Windows and when Windows updates, the non-Mac world updates with it. Well, except for the 14 people who use Linux.) And I should probably update to Windows 10 while it's free.  But I hate the idea of it. 

    I also read this: http://boingboing.net/2015/08/03/windows-10-defaults-to-keylogg   Obviously, take it with a grain of salt, but it's disturbing enough to make me uncomfortable.  I understand WHY.  I understand that my electronic privacy is already laughable.  But I still don't like it.  :(

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,157
    Ivy said:
    MEC4D said:

    +1 @Ivy

    seriuosly talk about Nanny do-gooders gone Amuck.. really crazy stuff

    If this is the updated services policy wouldn't that all apply to any of the MS software, including any OS versions you are using?  I'm not overly worried about that.  I worry about ME first, and since I don't let stuff like that excite me I get on with my life and my art and worry about stuff when it's actually happening, not thinking myself into a worry wart over what may be coming around the bend..... if I lived like that I would have be dead years ago!  wink

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941
    edited August 2015

    ...the issue is some of us don't want to turn on our systems one morning only to have it boot to a blank screen or go BSOD due to a buggy update that possibly wasn't even needed as the feature it is for is not used and we can't get rid of as it will just show up again.

    MS really needs to step back for a moment and consider the issues this forced acceptance of updates can cause (and has already caused twice).  At the very least the Pro version should allow the same permissions that Enterprise users get, especially if one actually purchases it.  Crikey, for 200$ I better be given full control of what goes on my system and what I can uninstall.

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,157

    Understandable but again, I can't worry about that.  It's probably NOT going to ever happen.  MS has never sent me an update that ruined my system, ever.  So not going to freak out about something like that.  I mean WHY would they shoot themselves in the foot?  That would be counterproductive to their business and they know it. 

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 40,941
    edited August 2015

    ..letsee 2 bad Nvidia updates that overwrote the existing ones and caused serious issues for a lot of users, and in the span of just a couple weeks?  I consider that a pretty bad track record especially since the bloody thing has barely got ourt of the gate.

    Doesn't make me confident in the "nanny" who thinks they know what's better for my system than myself (who also built it by the way).

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    kyoto kid said:

    ..letsee 2 bad Nvidia updates that overwrote the existing ones and caused serious issues for a lot of users, and in the span of just a couple weeks?  I consider that a pretty bad track record especially since the bloody thing has barely got ourt of the gate.

    Doesn't make me confident in the "nanny" who thinks they know what's better for my system than myself (who also built it by the way).

    heck if you want by that you wouldn't use any of Daz software .

    but you are !

  • nDelphinDelphi Posts: 1,853

    People keep mentioning other OSes as though they are truly an option, they are not. Unless they can run applications that only exist for the Windows platform, and they are many, there is no other OS to consider. To help break the Windows and Apple monopolies software companies have got to start moving their applications to an open source platform, in droves. And that is not ever going to happen.

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